My prediction for when the Dedicated Servers are here ... | Forums

[Tundra 793]

I can't find it now, but there is absolutely footage pre-2015. I'll look a bit more and see if I can provide a link. And here it is, it's in here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVcXbzoTS4o

FH was officially announced in 2015, but the developers talked openly about the game prior to that.

EDIT: I may have misquoted the year when I said 2013, but this footage is not the game that was released.

Right, I have actually seen the whole GDC presentation that Jason did (I believe this is the one Illyrian alluded to earlier as well) and that footage was not intended for public viewing. It was very early, proof of concept stuff meant to help Jason pitch his ideas of For Honor, which again, was based largely around his idea of a unique melee combat system.
Basing your ideas of what For Honor could/should have been on these very, very early versions of For Honor is like reading a first draft of Empire Strikes Back, and feeling like Luke and Leia should have hooked up.

The 2015 gameplay footage from E3 is so very close to the final product, barring some largely cosmetic changes, I don't think you can say that you got a different game, than what you were shown at the official reveal.


Just to summarize my overall thoughts; Dominion isn't what For Honor's all about, and not all of the developers focus needs to go into Dominion. For Honor was never advertised as a large scale siege/battle simulator. It's all about the Art of Battle.
That's not to say there isn't room for bigger game modes (6v6 or 8v8 is often suggested), but bigger battles is not the be-all-end-all of For Honor.

[Knight_Raime]

I can't find it now, but there is absolutely footage pre-2015. I'll look a bit more and see if I can provide a link. And here it is, it's in here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVcXbzoTS4o

FH was officially announced in 2015, but the developers talked openly about the game prior to that. I'm pretty sure I discovered the game via YT videos the devs published early on in development.

EDIT: I may have misquoted the year when I said 2013, I thought the last video I saw said 2013, but this one doesn't. Either way, this footage is not the game that was released.

The footage you see in the GDC pannel was never shown to the public till post launch. It was made mainly for them to pitch their idea and get support for it from publishers. Not to mention going back and looking at the first official video footage given to the public shows that the product we have now is pretty similar to what we saw as a first reveal. In other words we were not mislead in the slightest.

They might have painted a picture about war itself with dominion. But that's more contextual fluff to hype. Not to give an accurate representation of the final product. You can see the emphasis in the pre alpha reveal to the public on the art of battle system. you can also see how the heros have more distinct personality and the foot soldiers are made generic on purpose to be less important and bolster the uniqueness of the cast.

I do like from that unreleased footage the gritty nature of the style. I also wouldn't mind if we got a bigger mode or just made dominion bigger and more cinimatic. But I don't think it's cool to say we were mislead. when we factually were not.

[Illyrian_King]

I made this thread a few weeks ago and got no replies. But I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. It seems we are in the minority; but yes, FH is not the game I thought it would be when I first learned about in 2013. My hypothesis in my thread was the decision to use a P2P networking architecture radically shifted what the game could be. P2P can barely host 4v4 - no way a siege or large, destructible map would run smoothly. And I doubly agree there were even opportunities like you mentioned, to make Dominion as it is now more interesting - but alas, no. There's a pool of brainless minions in the middle, two small bases on either end - with one or both usually having several ledge areas/confined areas.

I agree with pretty much everything you wrote in OP. The multiplayer game modes are not interesting enough for long term sustainability (we see this already: good luck finding a PvP Brawl or Elimination on PC). We know player count on PC is fairly low, even if you estimate additional platforms like Uplay. Not sure about on console. I suppose enough people are buying Steel that they can continue to run the game/team off of that? Who knows?

But yes, FH is a fun game. But it's not the be-all-end-all medieval war game I thought it would be.

Those of you who are saying "FH was never going to be this," I presume you started following FH too late to be aware of this. Look up videos of the game in 2013, you'll see something quite different from what we have now.

I'm looking forward to Mordhau and Kingdom Come, but I don't think either will have as riveting combat as FH.

EDIT: And your Tekken analogy is spot on IMO, I literally said the same thing in my thread, hah.

Exactly my mind!

Unfortunately I didn't read your post, but if you also called it "medieval Tekken" it must mean, that it is an accurate comparison ^^

That looked amazing fighting the minions and then the catapults coming in running up to that the zone to control a catapult. Wow where is that game...

Heck yes, and this was all possible, but it would have been more expensive to create ...

Right, I have actually seen the whole GDC presentation that Jason did (I believe this is the one Illyrian alluded to earlier as well) and that footage was not intended for public viewing. It was very early, proof of concept stuff meant to help Jason pitch his ideas of For Honor, which again, was based largely around his idea of a unique melee combat system.
Basing your ideas of what For Honor could/should have been on these very, very early versions of For Honor is like reading a first draft of Empire Strikes Back, and feeling like Luke and Leia should have hooked up.

The 2015 gameplay footage from E3 is so very close to the final product, barring some largely cosmetic changes, I don't think you can say that you got a different game, than what you were shown at the official reveal.


Just to summarize my overall thoughts; Dominion isn't what For Honor's all about, and not all of the developers focus needs to go into Dominion. For Honor was never advertised as a large scale siege/battle simulator. It's all about the Art of Battle.
That's not to say there isn't room for bigger game modes (6v6 or 8v8 is often suggested), but bigger battles is not the be-all-end-all of For Honor.

Same like DoctorMcBatman I watched the developement from the very beginnning, and the actual game is just the little brother's shadow in comparison what it could have been.

It is very hard to find any proper sources now, but also on google news there have been several posts about FH, where devs talked about "realistic and epic battle simulations" in their quotes.
This was around the time of the reveal, so actually we got promissed something different.

Eventhough the "Art Of Battle" is the heart of the game, but the rest has mostly been thrown away.

Of course the devs should not put ALL of their effort in Dominion and Mass Battle Sieges, but actually there is literally NOTHING in this area since reveal 2015!

Tundra, I respect you now even more since you make the Den Recaps, but I followed the game developement since the tiniest leak was available.

And as it is now, it does not work in terms of wide audience attraction. Nobody can deny that.

[Knight_Raime]

@Illyrian_King

Are you really implying you some how saw/heard of this footage or their process before they went public with more info?
Even if I can believe that to be "leaked" and you happen to see it that still doesn't change the situation.

The actual footage given to the public is basically what we got in the full game. So you can't make the claim accurately that we were mislead.
Anything said prior to that footage being shown to the public can be chalked up as concepts and ideas. Not representations of the final product.

"realistic and epic battle simulations" is a very open ended statement my dude. You can easily describe dominion as is right now in the same way. You'd disagree though because you currently have the knowledge of what the game actually plays like. Also no where in that statement was a promise.

"the rest" to you is something not released to the public and fluff meant to hype the game. You're drawing your own headcannon and getting upset because the game didn't meet your idea of a game.

For honor was never going to attract a wide audience. Even if it was exactly what you wanted. It's a non traditional fighter. You nor I can accurately state how sucessfull that version of for honor would be. Nor can you accurately state that if they brought in some type of siege mode in now that it would make for honor a main stay title. As I said to the other guy. I'm completely fine with them bringing in that kind of mode. i'd welcome it. My issue lies with your false claim of being mislead.

But i'll humor you. Say that pre release not shown to public footage was the footage they showed the public. and then the game changed mid development. and we got the for honor we currently have. Do you know how typical it is for games to take massive changes during development? In fact in that very video that was shown of the GDC pannel they openly stated they made and scrapped over 400 different versions of the game. The footage you so want to be a reality is one of those. Not that hard to understand.

I can understand being upset about it not being the game you wanted. I just think you're over reaching trying to justify your feelings. You don't need to justify them. i'd much rather see a post from you or someone else going into depth on how they'ed like a siege mode done. with tons of detail. Than trying to shame the devs simply because your headcannon was shattered.

[wolfman25br]

They ultimatively failed to get that action from the campaign into Multiplayer!
We got promissed a massive battle simulator and we got a more or less medieval Tekken.

Other multyplayer games modes like Exaustion onTitanfall 2 represent better battle scenarios (more npc variation etc). TF2 has impeccable server service.

I'm curious if with the new service of the dedicated servers will be possible the structure of the game support more complex modes like siege, or even a dominion with more players on each side.
it surprises me that archery npcs have not been included as minions in the main game mode, or even captains... anyway maybe the dedicated server can support a more "complete" battle scenario.

cudos for the comparison, kinda of unffair though

[Illyrian_King]

@Illyrian_King

Are you really implying you some how saw/heard of this footage or their process before they went public with more info?
Even if I can believe that to be "leaked" and you happen to see it that still doesn't change the situation.

The actual footage given to the public is basically what we got in the full game. So you can't make the claim accurately that we were mislead.
Anything said prior to that footage being shown to the public can be chalked up as concepts and ideas. Not representations of the final product.

"realistic and epic battle simulations" is a very open ended statement my dude. You can easily describe dominion as is right now in the same way. You'd disagree though because you currently have the knowledge of what the game actually plays like. Also no where in that statement was a promise.

"Realistic and epic battle simulations" was writen in a context the way I mean it.

"the rest" to you is something not released to the public and fluff meant to hype the game. You're drawing your own headcannon and getting upset because the game didn't meet your idea of a game.

Yes it was not released because it was expensive to create and ht potential was ripped down. Greetings from the player numbers. In this discussion i really start to love this word ^^

For honor was never going to attract a wide audience. Even if it was exactly what you wanted. It's a non traditional fighter.

This sounds like a joke ;b
Exactly this "non traditional fighter" stuff is not the reason for the low player pool, but the only last bastion that keeps even the last few players here from leaving.

You nor I can accurately state how sucessfull that version of for honor would be. Nor can you accurately state that if they brought in some type of siege mode in now that it would make for honor a main stay title. As I said to the other guy. I'm completely fine with them bringing in that kind of mode. i'd welcome it. My issue lies with your false claim of being mislead.

I can just say, that the pre-release-footage we talked about was anticipated by the absolut majority of the people in this forum and on reddit.

So yeah ... it would have been successful
At least way more then the actual version.
Also the wide opinion is that the game lacks in content, so what are you trying to convince me off?

But i'll humor you. Say that pre release not shown to public footage was the footage they showed the public. and then the game changed mid development. and we got the for honor we currently have. Do you know how typical it is for games to take massive changes during development? In fact in that very video that was shown of the GDC pannel they openly stated they made and scrapped over 400 different versions of the game. The footage you so want to be a reality is one of those. Not that hard to understand.

I can understand being upset about it not being the game you wanted. I just think you're over reaching trying to justify your feelings. You don't need to justify them. i'd much rather see a post from you or someone else going into depth on how they'ed like a siege mode done. with tons of detail

Seems like you are one of the guys, who started to spectate the game developement somewhen later on after announcement ...

I am not the only one claiming that there was stuff visible before E3 2015

Yes they went the different way in developrment because it was way cheaper and now the fall flatly on their face because the wide audience is not attracted.

In mid-developement changes happen indeed, but is it really in your mind to claim, that the mentioned footage is worse then the actual Dominion?? You can't be serious to claim that such a change was made to "improve" the game.

Than trying to shame the devs simply because your headcannon was shattered

You forget that the headline of this thread contains the word "prediction" ... you are getting something wrong. This is about making a wage statement, before the thing actally happened.

[CandleInTheDark]

This is exactly what would actually help the game, but most likely it won't happen. The person in front of you with the "Art of Battle" is exactly what makes the combat system unique, and that's the point I am saying. It is more or less a wasted concept, because it is left alone without any bigger and complex ingame mechanic coming for support.

For the average player, this is not enough to hook up for longer then 3-4 weeks --> visible in the player numbers

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see what they can do with stability and maybe more numbers but I don't think this argument holds true when you consider rocket league. If anything it is shallower than for honor, it will only ever be 2-8 flying cars chasing an oversized ball, but it is big enough it shares an e-sport platform with counterstrike and street fighter, I would say a good proportion of the difference is they never had the stability issues.

It doesn't mean they can afford to rest on their laurels but I think more stability for the people that do struggle currently will give them time to see what else they can do.

[Illyrian_King]

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see what they can do with stability and maybe more numbers but I don't think this argument holds true when you consider rocket league. If anything it is shallower than for honor, it will only ever be 2-8 flying cars chasing an oversized ball, but it is big enough it shares an e-sport platform with counterstrike and street fighter, I would say a good proportion of the difference is they never had the stability issues.

It doesn't mean they can afford to rest on their laurels but I think more stability for the people that do struggle currently will give them time to see what else they can do.

Don't get me wrong. I am not saying that the Deds are a wasted investion, but it simply they won't have an effect of that scale like many people think.

There was simply to much negative feedback about the game content itself.
at least in the same amount like with the connectivity issues.

Also don't forget that Psyonix is by far not a publisher like AAA-Publisher Ubisoft. When people play Rocket League (they know that it's basically just car football with a strange gravity) they don't expect the same like when they play For Honor after all these trailers and expansive advertisement and the Faction War, etc.
People are more or less disappointed.

Also FH doesn't have a quiet good reputation out there, and that is hard to fix. Beside the content and connectivity there is for example the boycott, what gave media the chance to pull FH through the mud. Or the season 3 reveal event with that noob winning by abusing exploits was no great help promoting the game. Also the other participants really played in an unattractive way and it was just embarressing for everybody involved.

I am just saying that the Deds won't cause a miracle and very likely don't even crack the 10k players online border after maybe 2-3 weeks. They need to give the game's depth some love and make things much less linear.

At release For Honor was in the top charts and in some countries the most saled game. If they managed to lose that status and drop down to this ... there must be more wrong then just the servers and some matchmaking.

Also don't forget that this just my prediction. When the Deds are out, come and prove me wrong ^^

EDIT: Counter Strike is so successful, because it's the game of everybody's childhood and there is a lot of skin trade behind it. I have some friends that make a lot of money this way, and yeah of course they play the game.

[PDXGorechild]

I am just saying that the Deds won't cause a miracle and very likely don't even crack the 10k players online border after maybe 2-3 weeks. They need to give the game's depth some love and make things much less linear..

I don't think anyone is assuming that the dedicated servers will make the game hyper popular overnight. But it will help. There are bound to be plenty of players that liked the game but couldn't hack the server issues that will come back once dedicated servers are implemented. I imagine they'll do a free trial for new players to showcase the servers. This won't be millions of players and not all of them will stay, but it will be better than it was. It also keeps the hardcore fanatics happy.

Personally I feel they're heading in the right direction and doing things in the right order. I'd much rather see old classes fixed and the fight system tweaked before any other changes.

[Illyrian_King]

I don't think anyone is assuming that the dedicated servers will make the game hyper popular overnight. But it will help. There are bound to be plenty of players that liked the game but couldn't hack the server issues that will come back once dedicated servers are implemented. I imagine they'll do a free trial for new players to showcase the servers. This won't be millions of players and not all of them will stay, but it will be better than it was. It also keeps the hardcore fanatics happy.

Personally I feel they're heading in the right direction and doing things in the right order. I'd much rather see old classes fixed and the fight system tweaked before any other changes.

This is a thing I can agree with