The one thing I ask for the Nobushi Buff | Forums

[Knight_Raime]

Honestly wasn't expecting Bushi to receive a major balance pass. imo she's just underrated. She's got issues but she's not poor.
If I had to guess zone is probably going to take a hit some how (probably in the damage department) given how strong it is to throw randomly after recovery canceling or just whenever in 4v4 group fights.

IMO hidden stance should cost less stamina for sure. maaaaaybe speed it up slightly. So it could be better used on reaction. But I could see that pushing her power a bit too much. so maybe not do that part. The back poke (vipers retreat?) could be made more useful. it's pretty niche right now. I think her unblockable kick is fine as is. the fact that it can be delayed and she's pretty safe when using it means people don't really try to punish it.

Other than hidden stance stamina cost and vipers retreat getting tweaked i'm unsure how else they could really make her better without changing her identity.

[BTTrinity]

Honestly wasn't expecting Bushi to receive a major balance pass. imo she's just underrated. She's got issues but she's not poor.
If I had to guess zone is probably going to take a hit some how (probably in the damage department) given how strong it is to throw randomly after recovery canceling or just whenever in 4v4 group fights.

IMO hidden stance should cost less stamina for sure. maaaaaybe speed it up slightly. So it could be better used on reaction. But I could see that pushing her power a bit too much. so maybe not do that part. The back poke (vipers retreat?) could be made more useful. it's pretty niche right now. I think her unblockable kick is fine as is. the fact that it can be delayed and she's pretty safe when using it means people don't really try to punish it.

Other than hidden stance stamina cost and vipers retreat getting tweaked i'm unsure how else they could really make her better without changing her identity.

Making it so she can utilize the dodge part of her dodge attack Yeah, they need to be careful with her.... I really cant wait to see what they're doing next update.

[Jiblet2017]

You don't need feats active to get that zone damage though, just high level gear, which doesn't take long to get, I've been playing since the beta so I don't need to look up a spreadsheet to know how much damage her zone does.

The devs also have said they are wanting to nerf her zone attack, also comparing orochi top lights with bleed on isn't an accurate comparison either, so maybe take a page out of your own book and make clearer statements as well, nubushi zone can hit multiple people and doesn't need a feat active to achieve high damage.

There is no need to get worked up. The orochi reference was just an example of why generally people refer to base damage for clarity sake - which you seem to agree.

It would be interesting if, instead of outright changing the nobushi dodge attack they simply widened the window for inputting the attack during the dodge. A larger inout window would allow for some interesting mind games: a) allow for a fast input for its dodge recovery cancellation properties or b) input the attack after the character model has moved some distance to utilize the evasive part of the dodge (while still avoiding a gb) .

[Kryltic]

After playing a few more games with her (I've been working on new characters) and playing more Brawls and Duels I retract my comments about the stamina cost reductions. She definitely needs them across the board. I'm mostly a 4vs4 player and have my gear stat bonuses. I apologise about this part of my comments.

How about allowing her to retreat after a successful attack as well as a successful block? That would work better than a health boost and would keep true to her description. For example at the end of an attack you press A (on the xbox) and she auto jumps back.

I don't think her zone attack needs touching due to how easy it is to parry. You get two chances to ruin her day so its a high risk high reward.

I also agree about the hyper armour on her kicks plus the speed increase to them. That combined with her ability to retreat as part of an attack chain would play true to her description.

[Xil_h]

She definitely needs a better Stamina management. I call her OOSushi. Fighting Centurion gives me nightmares. Also fighting turtles is really difficult as you lose to much stamina on a blocked attack.

[Charmzzz]

She definitely needs a better Stamina management. I call her OOSushi. Fighting Centurion gives me nightmares. Also fighting turtles is really difficult as you lose to much stamina on a blocked attack.

You are doing Nobushi wrong. She is not a Duel Character. As Nobu you fight on the Minion Point in Dom or in Group Fights. There you just spam your Zone or Sidewinder, the wide arc of the attacks will always kill some minions for health regen or randomly hit opponents. Btw you cannot parry attacks when you are not the logged on target of the Nobu.
THIS makes her completely over the top in any group fight. 5m range (feels like this), wide arc (360° on zone, got hit by an enemy Nobu on every side), heavy aoe damage (33 and 25), massively spammable due to recovery on dodge and unparryable if you lock on a target which is out of your range.

[Xil_h]

You are doing Nobushi wrong. She is not a Duel Character. As Nobu you fight on the Minion Point in Dom or in Group Fights. There you just spam your Zone or Sidewinder, the wide arc of the attacks will always kill some minions for health regen or randomly hit opponents. Btw you cannot parry attacks when you are not the logged on target of the Nobu.
THIS makes her completely over the top in any group fight. 5m range (feels like this), wide arc (360° on zone, got hit by an enemy Nobu on every side), heavy aoe damage (33 and 25), massively spammable due to recovery on dodge and unparryable if you lock on a target which is out of your range.

Well.. I am still new to the game.
But that aside, you just can't always avoid 1v1 combat. I quickly find myself in 1v3 situations more often than 2v1 or 3v1. I think it's part of the skill bracket I am in, with lots of new and bad players. Heck I lost so many games cuz team members keep hitting me in the back (dropping the Tribute etc) blocking retreat path and dodge room, not playing objectives...

[BTTrinity]

You are doing Nobushi wrong. She is not a Duel Character. As Nobu you fight on the Minion Point in Dom or in Group Fights. There you just spam your Zone or Sidewinder, the wide arc of the attacks will always kill some minions for health regen or randomly hit opponents. Btw you cannot parry attacks when you are not the logged on target of the Nobu.
THIS makes her completely over the top in any group fight. 5m range (feels like this), wide arc (360° on zone, got hit by an enemy Nobu on every side), heavy aoe damage (33 and 25), massively spammable due to recovery on dodge and unparryable if you lock on a target which is out of your range.

There is no doing Nobushi wrong, if he wants to play her in duels then let him... Im sure the reason most Nobushi players go off to 4v4's is because thats the only place shes actually worth something... which is stupid, nobody should be balanced around 4v4's... Everyone should be balanced around 1v1's while 4v4's should be the afterthought

Btw you cannot parry attacks when you are not the logged on target of the Nobu.
THIS makes her completely over the top in any group fight. 5m range (feels like this), wide arc (360° on zone, got hit by an enemy Nobu on every side), heavy aoe damage (33 and 25), massively spammable due to recovery on dodge and unparryable if you lock on a target which is out of your range.

BS Just last night, I was being parried left and right by everyone that I wasnt locked onto... I remember it clear as day because there was this one AWESOME Shaman ruining my entire night, also trying to teac me how to fight her (Because I really suck at it)

[Charmzzz]

There is no doing Nobushi wrong, if he wants to play her in duels then let him... Im sure the reason most Nobushi players go off to 4v4's is because thats the only place shes actually worth something... which is stupid, nobody should be balanced around 4v4's... Everyone should be balanced around 1v1's while 4v4's should be the afterthought

You are wrong. For Honor was advertised and sold with the focus on Dominion. Not as a traditional 1v1 Duel Fighter game. So the balance will evolve around 4v4, just as it did since release. And Nobu is not only "actually worth something" in 4v4. She is a must-have for every team that plays in higher skill levels and wants to win.

BS Just last night, I was being parried left and right by everyone that I wasnt locked onto... I remember it clear as day because there was this one AWESOME Shaman ruining my entire night, also trying to teac me how to fight her (Because I really suck at it)

I will record a video that will disprove your point. Unparryable attacks are still in the game, only the unlock tech got "fixed" (still some attacks seem to be unparryable when performed unlocked). But you cannot parry attacks that are directed to someone else. That is why it is common practice for every Nobu to lock on a target which is not in range and spam zone / sidewinder. Unpunishable, high range, wide arc, high damage attacks that come out super quickly cause of 0 recovery after dodge.

If you dont believe me, have a read here why Nobu is "busted in Team Modes" from SB.Alernakin who won the official Tournament with her (using mostly unlock zones):

https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.ph...t=sb.alernakin

-- Zone attack. It's quick, deals at least 33 damage (more with bleed) and has great AoE, nigh 360 degrees. On top of that, it can be made unparryable by simply positioning yourself so that there's someone on your right. It is then quicker than Peacekeeper zone. It can be used to interrupt all attempts at an offensive action from the opponents, meaning it's very easy to punish with it. And if all of that wasn't enough, it is nigh unpunishable. All it takes to block attacks is feinting second part of zone and cancelling recovery with a dash, which makes it an attack with 0 recovery frames. If the opponent decides to guard break you in your dash, you can punish that attempt very easily with a dash attack.

-- Dash attacks. Not only are they quick and deal at least a bar of damage, they also have no recovery frames, just like the zone attack, making them unpunishable on reaction. They can also be chained together, meaning guard breaking while Nobushi dashes is unreliable at best and heavily punishable at worst. Just like the zone, both dash attacks can be unlocked in order to make them unparryable (unlocked cobra strike is also quicker than usual), and even if that weren't possible, you could very easily target the other player while you use sidewinder due to its extraordinarly wide arc. As a side note, sidewinder hitbox does not match the animation.

-- Zero recovery. I know I already mentioned this twice, but it's a very big part of why Nobushi is so strong. Zone, dash attacks and viper's retreat all have virtually zero recovery frames due to dash cancel, and that cancel is very hard to punish. There are two ways to even attempt to punish all of those attacks -- one is to predict them and attack at pretty much the same time as the Nobushi. The other is to try using a guard break every now and then if the Nobushi isn't using dash attacks after recovery cancel. Both of those ways are, however, very unreliable and highly punishable.

-- Revenge. Some people think the Nobushi issue would be solved if only tournaments started implementing revenge. That is, however, not true. I'll use Barace's post here to aid me: https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitive...works_against/ Nobushi is always tagged with both enemies. This means that as long as the enemies are not also tagged with the Nobushi's ally, the game thinks that she is in a 1v2 when they attack her. In this situation her attacks give 0 revenge, and she gets 4x revenge. Once in revenge, her zone is amazingly strong and can turn the tide of battle very quickly.
Now that we got 2v2 out of the way, let's talk about 4v4.

-- Nobushi is the best 1vX character in the game. Any small mistake is easily punished with a zone attack, unlocked sidewinder is a 100% safe option due to its wide arc and being unparryable. The usual tactic in a 2v1 situation is to either use guard break into guaranteed damage or lock in the outnumbered player with CC. Nobushi has counterplay to both of those tactics -- if she reads a guard break correctly, that's free 33 unpunishable damage that she gets. If opponents try to use a lot of CC -- Nobushi can use her dash attacks for punish, or just zone if the one using CC abilities is on her right. Revenge just makes her all the more threatening.

-- Feats. Body count is by far the strongest level 1 feat in the game, and one of the strongest in general. It makes 1v1'ing a Nobushi in mid pretty much impossible -- usually you need at least two people to reliably kill her, and as already stated, Nobushi can win that situation as well. Pre-nerf revenge attack was the strongest level 2 feat in the game, however after nerf it is much weaker, therefore probably not a big issue. Her level 3 heal feat, however, can outheal demon embrace -- that's how strong it is. Combined with body count and the fact that Nobushi usually gets her feats the quickest, it makes her a very durable character that barely ever dies. Level 4 feats aren't much of an issue, fire bomb being strong in denying revives and end game fights, but other characters have similar or better level 4 feats.

-- Impact in team fights. Nobushi is the most important character in team fights. Killing one basically ensures victory, while losing your own spells disaster. Her insane zone AoE and damage, great range with dash attacks and, again, unpunishability all make her a must-have. You are simply at a disadvantage if you initiate a team fight without her.
I'm sure there are details that I've missed in this post, but I believe those are the main reasons Nobushi is one of the strongest characters in the game. I tried to make this thread as concise as possible while still having a lot of information.

And if anyone doesn't believe me -- I'm including VODs of the last three big 2v2 tournaments with the best players in the game. Hint: there are Nobushis in almost all of the teams that did well.

ScottJund's Brawler's Guild: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/145913024

Reddit 2v2 Tournament: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/148742214

HallofHeroes 2v2 Tournament: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/149256069

[Devils-_-legacy]

Really Have you got a video of that only asking because in my whole play time of for honor I've never been parried from someone I'm not locked on to from her aoe and Ive never been able to parry it unless there locked on or seen anyone do it