Vanilla and DLC Hero Comparisons | Forums

[PanzerShrekonin]

Here is where I have to disagree.


While yes, in general, the DLC roster is superior, you are forgetting that the Raider AND the Peacekeeper remain A tier which is below S tier.

Most of the DLC resides in the B tier category along with most of the original roster.

I dont want to see the DLC cast toned down... I want them to be buffed and turned up. Nerfing is bad. Always bad.

[Linnix1]

If they buff the cast anymore the games just gonna become either one shots or touch of death. Pick your poison

[Mia.Nora]

Problem is not just the number of unblockables, but also their speed and utility is far superior in DLC characters.

Look at Shugoki unblockables;
- Headbutt can only be used after a hit; leads to..... nothing. Doesn't even ledge opponent right at the edge of cliff
- Charged Unblockable Heavy. Slowest attack that can not be soft feinted into anything that also drains Shugoki's pretty much whole stamina bar. If parried he is OOS.

And now compare this to Shaman unblockables.

But it is not just the attacks itself either, the tracking simply makes positioning and tactical step back attacks (like Oroichi back heavy) also obsolete. This behaviour was introduced with Centurion simply heat seeking to his target, and they managed to make it worse with shaman leap attacks. Her distance and tracking feels like Supergirl teleport attacks in Injustice 2.

If they just buff OG heroes to Shaman lvls game will just turn into a clusterfak, more so than already it is.

[brashtralas]

The problem I have with the vanilla roster is the limited move list and incredible predictability. The reason I prefer shaman over my peacekeeper is simply the ability I have to mix up and keep from being parried and countered.
I'm greatly looking forward to the changes these reworks bring, as I've been saying since season 2 that it's something that should have been done.

Mixups and avoiding being partied or countered are the exact reasons people say she’s overpowered. I’d almost say that’s the definition.

I think that’s the whole point of this reddit post.

[brashtralas]

Problem is not just the number of unblockables, but also their speed and utility is far superior in DLC characters.

Look at Shugoki unblockables;
- Headbutt can only be used after a hit; leads to..... nothing. Doesn't even ledge opponent right at the edge of cliff
- Charged Unblockable Heavy. Slowest attack that can not be soft feinted into anything that also drains Shugoki's pretty much whole stamina bar. If parried he is OOS.

And now compare this to Shaman unblockables.

But it is not just the attacks itself either, the tracking simply makes positioning and tactical step back attacks (like Oroichi back heavy) also obsolete. This behaviour was introduced with Centurion simply heat seeking to his target, and they managed to make it worse with shaman leap attacks. Her distance and tracking feels like Supergirl teleport attacks in Injustice 2.

If they just buff OG heroes to Shaman lvls game will just turn into a clusterfak, more so than already it is.

Exactly. Then add in insane dodge recovery and she never has to stop moving while killing you.

[ChampionRuby50g]

Thanks for sharing this Tundra. Never realised how big the discrepancies where between the OGs and the DLCs until now. When you see those hard numbers, it’s hard to argue. I used to be saying we need to buff the other heroes to the level of Shaman and Glad, but with these stats in front of me and your arguments against it I start to side with you. I suppose we should wait and see what the reworks bring to the table, and how these heroes start to perform.

[mrmistark]

Nerfing is bad. Always bad.

With how unbalanced the roster is, I think that’s rather a ballsy thing to say. Please give insight to how you think Shamans bite is balanced and shouldn’t be nerfed? Pre need Shinobi/ warden/ shugoki/ PK? Those were horrible moves on the dev teams side? I’d say they were good decisions.

Anyways though, I think mix ups are what the game should gear towards, not start away from. What we need to be focusing on is getting rid of constant guaranteed damage. Some things should be rewarded, but other than damage on gb and a few CC easily dodged/ interrupted moves, there shouldn’t be any free chicken. More mix ups, less CC honestly. Make it tactical and a mind game rather than a spam fest.

[The_B0G_]

Without unblockables, no matter what defence meta nerfs there are, there will always be turtles. I recently started noticing I'm always fighting lvl 3 bots when I see a bot in game, so that means I'm fighting in the top 10 percent.

Me and my friends I usually play with have also noticed the increase in people who just parry bait and turtle constantly, in the higher skill levels this is how most combat is, I find myself waiting for teammates to help with the really big turtles because even with unblockables its hard to open them up, because of this every night this week one of us has gotten so fed up we had to quit playing before we threw a controller.

If we go backwards and make every character as slow and predicatable as the OG cast, this game will never improve. They're on the right course.

[PanzerShrekonin]

With how unbalanced the roster is, I think that’s rather a ballsy thing to say. Please give insight to how you think Shamans bite is balanced and shouldn’t be nerfed? Pre need Shinobi/ warden/ shugoki/ PK? Those were horrible moves on the dev teams side? I’d say they were good decisions.

Anyways though, I think mix ups are what the game should gear towards, not start away from. What we need to be focusing on is getting rid of constant guaranteed damage. Some things should be rewarded, but other than damage on gb and a few CC easily dodged/ interrupted moves, there shouldn’t be any free chicken. More mix ups, less CC honestly. Make it tactical and a mind game rather than a spam fest.

Because nerfing doesn't always fix things. Shugoki got nerfed so bad, hes terrible. PK got nerfed VERY little and she remains top tier. She dropped down from S-tier where Shaman and Glad currently reside, and is now A tier, which is I call, top tier.

Centurion got nerfed to B tier along with Shugoki.

Warden... Im not sure where ill place him but ill say high B or Low A.

I mean. Nerfing CAN work but Ubi doesn't exactly have a good track record with their balancing. I mean look at the Shaman release... and Glad release...

and PK release.

And Centurion release!


lol.

[Tundra 793]

Here is where I have to disagree.


While yes, in general, the DLC roster is superior, you are forgetting that the Raider AND the Peacekeeper remain A tier which is below S tier.

Most of the DLC resides in the B tier category along with most of the original roster.

I dont want to see the DLC cast toned down... I want them to be buffed and turned up. Nerfing is bad. Always bad.

Tier lists are not as solid an argument as many people believe. I've been here since day 1, and have seen countless tier lists, and no two were alike.

Kensei, while he's been widely considered low tier since Season 1, has always been the bane of my existence. I just can't seem to get the parry times right, so a good Kensei can always kick my ***.
But I absolutely understand why he needs his rework, and my opinion on him shouldn't have any bearing on his place in For Honor. We have to be open minded to the bigger picture of hero balance, not just our own perspectives.

You deal quite plainly in absolutes, and my counter point is simply; It's not black and white. Heroes aren't locked into tiers, and nerfing is far from always bad. In my head, For Honor should be a more grounded fighter than what it's currently looking to become.