Why do rubbish people moan about shaman so much | Forums

[Dasteel1974]

So many people complain about shaman and she isn’t even over powered.. look at orochi no one cares about him now but people used to cry themselves to sleep at night at the start. He doesn’t have much to brag about.

Every player is over powered in there own way. Look at the centurion has so many stun moves and knock backs ow and a stab once your down once your pinned it’s game over due to stun stamina reductions. Look at the Berserker can hit a 55 with a heavy no complaints? Or a highlander in the wrong hands gives me nightmares! Or even a parry happy warden. Or even a raider cheesing you grab run knee stun hit and repeat. Revenge in brawls? or revenge in general that’s even more op than any play will ever be.

People need to stop crying about stuff and just have fun it’s a game after all! If you think shaman is op use them and Ull soon go back to a different character once you get dodged and parried.

Ow and if you are wondering how to block or parry I’m sure YouTube can help you!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0

[Warp_11]

I hate shaman because she looks horrible, unrealistic, cheesy, etc. Her animations are even worse.
Mix that with her jump speed of a jaguar on speed and dmg of berserk. I hate her more than I hated peacekeeper before I dropped the game 9 months ago.
I dislike every step away from realism tbh. It's not like I want the game to be like real life but when that pretty small woman knocks down an armored brute and bites of a piece of steel from their neck; it just hurts.
P.S. even if she is a noob stomper, it's still bad because then the game won't get new or returning players

[kbvlcvfkhgc]

Its Russian for Sebastian,

au revior Muchachos!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Warp_11]

no it's not, russian is my 1st language

[ChampionRuby50g]

Hahahah, these two comments above mine are gold.

[brashtralas]

Is this thread for real? Hahaha

[Klingentaenz3r]

Introduce a new hero, many who dislike losing and aren't comfy with adapting to new heroes will complain and crynerf. It has happened every season.
In the particular case of Shaman, she alone has a much more fluid kit flow than the rest of the cast. Meaning, she's more noob-friendly, and a relatively inexperienced low-rep player using Shaman can wipe the floor with a veteran high-rep player if the veteran isn't too careful.

The major issue here is people wanting easy wins and then finding out that a lot of their maneuvers (and cheese tactics) don't work on Shaman. Then they snap how she's OP and needs nerfs.

In reality she isn't OP, she's finely tuned with wrong numbers and values here and there that have mostly gotten fixed by now (still some things remain). However she was introduced into the game far before the other heroes would catch up to her level, so she'll reign as the supreme S-Tier hero for quite some time.

That is a little overly simplified. Sure there are lots of haters that fit your description of disliking losing and failing to adapt. But this is not the core issue. The core issue with Shaman is that she is indeed fundamentally overpowered. She has speed, power, an extreme very variable and viable kit, huge distance that she can cover with one leap, running speed, throw distance, excellent recovery times and last but not least move cancel options like no other.

She can soley abuse how inferior other characters are just by feinting wild cat's rage, predator's hunger/mercy over and over again and wait until a dodge happens. Since her pounce or neckbite comes out so fast, you don't have any possibiltiy to get out of recovery to attack her out of it or dodge again. While she can double dodge for instance a highlanders fumorion kick cancel to caber toss. This all is just an unfair advantage which gives the shaman complete control over the fight. For other classes this is always an uphill battle. Possible but as you said you need to be careful and the shaman player to fall for it.

Thx to her as you say fluit kit and her great recovery times she can easily outmanouver other casts members that feel much more clumpsy and less reactable. It makes her easy to use yes, but I would say none the less that Shaman requires some knowlegde over her kit and how it works together. But once that is figured out then you are in trouble.

But I would still say that In the hands of a novice who just started the character and just tries to get a hang how things work shaman can be dealt with quite easily. Which was also the case for many players on the opposite side as she was released. Unlike Centurion on release who brought an entirely new fighting challenge to the game and promoted to react at different and seemingly everchanging timings combined with unusal tracking + stamina draining options than ever before + getting severely punished with a cutscene when they screwed up. Shaman's only cutscene is her bite she promotes actual fighting and a dynamic fight - but she is just far superior to the other characters in mechanical terms while having advanced versions of some of the best/unique moves in the game.

Some examples:

Wild Cat's Rage (Jump attack) aka Orochi's Storm rush advanced

• Way too fast. This single move ensures that the Shaman always gets a punishment. If there is any kind of opening she can easily benifit on it with this attack. Often it was stated on reddit that the indicator is bugged and hence you have an even shorter reaction window to actually react to. I am not sure if this is fixed already but I usually try to predict where my opponent's gonna hit and concentrate on blocking to maybe be able to swap directions at the last moment if I have to.
• Covers way too much distance. This soley guarantees that Shaman is superior in every 4v4 game mode (especially in tribute) She can be everywhere on the map and engage opponents. If she is right on the edge of your screen not 1 second later she is in your face probably dealt some damage already and go into her unblockable mixup. Furthermore I cannot stress enough how insanely powerful this is when it comes to team fights. She can just instantaniously disengage an opponent and jump upon another maybe to interrupt a lethal attack on a team mate without actually having to mind much about her own opponent and punishment possibilities.
• Can change directions very shortly before the actual attack

Her throwing distance is also as mentioned before unnecessarily high. That only gives a huge advantage in 4v4s but also in duel situations as you easily wallsplat.

Her side dodge attack Wild Cat's Swiftness is safe on block and is a heavy. Meaning good damage while having no threat of getting punished as severe as a light parry punish. Furthermore it is short ranged/quick. Meaning opponents don't have much time to prepare to punish her with a parry nor to readjust if they feinted.

I don't know how the reworks turn out to be, but surely there still have to be some readjustments to be done to the shaman to get her to a reasonable spot. The changes so far are going in the right direction (for instance the increased recovery time after a missed predator's mercy) but it definitely should not stop there.

[BTTrinity]

That is a little overly simplified. Sure there are lots of haters that fit your description of disliking losing and failing to adapt. But this is not the core issue. The core issue with Shaman is that she is indeed fundamentally overpowered. She has speed, power, an extreme very variable and viable kit, huge distance that she can cover with one leap, running speed, throw distance, excellent recovery times and last but not least move cancel options like no other.

She can soley abuse how inferior other characters are just by feinting wild cat's rage, predator's hunger/mercy over and over again and wait until a dodge happens. Since her pounce or neckbite comes out so fast, you don't have any possibiltiy to get out of recovery to attack her out of it or dodge again. While she can double dodge for instance a highlanders fumorion kick cancel to caber toss. This all is just an unfair advantage which gives the shaman complete control over the fight. For other classes this is always an uphill battle. Possible but as you said you need to be careful and the shaman player to fall for it.

Thx to her as you say fluit kit and her great recovery times she can easily outmanouver other casts members that feel much more clumpsy and less reactable. It makes her easy to use yes, but I would say none the less that Shaman requires some knowlegde over her kit and how it works together. But once that is figured out then you are in trouble.

But I would still say that In the hands of a novice who just started the character and just tries to get a hang how things work shaman can be dealt with quite easily. Which was also the case for many players on the opposite side as she was released. Unlike Centurion on release who brought an entirely new fighting challenge to the game and promoted to react at different and seemingly everchanging timings combined with unusal tracking + stamina draining options than ever before + getting severely punished with a cutscene when they screwed up. Shaman's only cutscene is her bite she promotes actual fighting and a dynamic fight - but she is just far superior to the other characters in mechanical terms while having advanced versions of some of the best/unique moves in the game.

Some examples:

Wild Cat's Rage (Jump attack) aka Orochi's Storm rush advanced

• Way too fast. This single move ensures that the Shaman always gets a punishment. If there is any kind of opening she can easily benifit on it with this attack. Often it was stated on reddit that the indicator is bugged and hence you have an even shorter reaction window to actually react to. I am not sure if this is fixed already but I usually try to predict where my opponent's gonna hit and concentrate on blocking to maybe be able to swap directions at the last moment if I have to.
• Covers way too much distance. This soley guarantees that Shaman is superior in every 4v4 game mode (especially in tribute) She can be everywhere on the map and engage opponents. If she is right on the edge of your screen not 1 second later she is in your face probably dealt some damage already and go into her unblockable mixup. Furthermore I cannot stress enough how insanely powerful this is when it comes to team fights. She can just instantaniously disengage an opponent and jump upon another maybe to interrupt a lethal attack on a team mate without actually having to mind much about her own opponent and punishment possibilities.
• Can change directions very shortly before the actual attack

Her throwing distance is also as mentioned before unnecessarily high. That only gives a huge advantage in 4v4s but also in duel situations as you easily wallsplat.

Her side dodge attack Wild Cat's Swiftness is safe on block and is a heavy. Meaning good damage while having no thread of getting punish as severe as a light parry punish. Furthermore it is short ranged/quick. Meaning opponents don't have much time to prepare her to punish with a parry nor to readjust if they feinted.

I don't know how the reworks turn out to be, but surely there still have to be some readjustments to be done to the shaman to get her to a reasonable spot. The changes so far are going in the right direction (for instance the increased recovery time after a missed predator's mercy) but it definitely should not stop there.

I think her headbutt shouldnt be guaranteed after a throw, throw distance should be nerfed, nerf running speed (The only time she should be faster than Shinobi, is when using the feat) and her HP should be 100, along with Shinobi (hell, Shinobi deserves that health pool far more than she does...) then shed probably be fine.

The fact that she has the best health sustain, hardest attacks to read, and the best CC move(s) in the game definitely calls for her being a glass cannon (cuz that bleed passive, shes hardly a glass cannon even at that point.)

[Tyrjo]

Both Wild Cat's Swiftness and Wild Cat's Rage should be punishable with a GB if blocked. They are way to safe to do.

[Devils-_-legacy]

No that would give way to much of a reward basically a parry from blocking