Why guard break is breaking the game and how to fix it | Forums

[eLhabib]

Please hear me out on this before you answer the poll.

I have been playing For Honor since the first closed alpha and though many of the technical issues this game has have been fixed, one big flaw in the whole fight system has never been closely looked at, and that - in my humble opinion - is the way guard break works. To be precise, it's more about the way a counter guard break works.

You see, every move in this game has a certain risk and reward to it, and most of the moves are actually pretty well balanced in that the reward they give you is proportional to the risk of the consequences if the move fails. However, guard break - even though it yields a substantial reward - doesn't have much of a risk to it, and that's because the guard break counter doesn't do much but reset the positions.

Let's look at this in detail:
Successful guard break - well, I think I don't have to explain the number of possible rewards a succesful guard break opens up, it's one of the most substantial moves in the game (unfortunately).
Missed guard break - this, of course, opens you up to a quick attack or a guard break by the opponent. However, it takes a rather large misjudgement of distance to actually whiff a guard break, so this should be punishable, as is.
And now to my point of interest:
GUARD BREAK into COUNTER GUARD BREAK - what does the counter guard break actually do? Sure, it pushes the opponent back a little bit (only rewarding if the opponent was stupid enough to attempt a guard break with his back to a hazard), but other than that it only resets the position to where it was before the guard break attempt, and that, in my view, is wrong. With things being as they are right now, if I am close to an enemy, the safest option is ALWAYS to try a guard break. If it connects - great, I get a free attack or opener to whatever. If it gets countered, I just lose a tiny bit of stamina and everything else is exactly as it was before. That's what you call a SAFE MOVE, and there should be no such thing in a fightig game.

Here are two things I would like to see changed about the counter guard break - they're really minor tweaks, but they would make the whole guard break meta a lot more fair and balanced:

1.) attempting a guard break and having it countered should cost you A LOT more stamina. I'm thinking at least as much as a zone attack. This way, you would not be willing to risk a countered guard break twice in a row, or when you are low on stamina.

2.) attempting a guard break with your back to a wall and having it countered should wall stun you the same way as a regular guard break push into a wall. This way, if you were stupid enough to get yourself into a tight spot, there is no easy way out by guard breaking and reverting positions without risk.

Please share your thoughts on the matter and answer the poll.
Thank you.
- eL

[PDXGorechild]

"With things being as they are right now, if I am close to an enemy, the safest option is ALWAYS to try a guard break."

Not against somebody who knows you will GB and throws out light attacks to stop you, then it becomes hazardous.

However, I can see what you mean. I do agree that perhaps there should be a larger stamina penalty to the person who got counter guard-broken.

My only worry with this is, players that are good at GB and counter GB will only benefit more from this. Personally, I'm not very good at counter guard breaking. Maybe I manage it 20% of the time. Dunno why. I can block, parry and deflect pretty consistently, and mix up attacks with the best of them. But i've always suffered with GB for some reason. So when I go up against a CGB god who only capitalises on guaranteed heavies when i'm guard broken, it's incredibly frustrating, and will be even more frustrating when they consistently put me below half stamina when I try and GB them back.

A Highlander I fought last night didn't miss one counter to every guard break I threw at him in two games of Brawl. Even with heavy feint > GB and mix up's. Now if those counter GB's had drained my already difficult to manage stamina, i'd probably be here complaining about it now.

[Gemoroda]

Please hear me out on this before you answer the poll.

I have been playing For Honor since the first closed alpha and though many of the technical issues this game has have been fixed, one big flaw in the whole fight system has never been closely looked at, and that - in my humble opinion - is the way guard break works. To be precise, it's more about the way a counter guard break works.

You see, every move in this game has a certain risk and reward to it, and most of the moves are actually pretty well balanced in that the reward they give you is proportional to the risk of the consequences if the move fails. However, guard break - even though it yields a substantial reward - doesn't have much of a risk to it, and that's because the guard break counter doesn't do much but reset the positions.

Let's look at this in detail:
Successful guard break - well, I think I don't have to explain the number of possible rewards a succesful guard break opens up, it's one of the most substantial moves in the game (unfortunately).
Missed guard break - this, of course, opens you up to a quick attack or a guard break by the opponent. However, it takes a rather large misjudgement of distance to actually whiff a guard break, so this should be punishable, as is.
And now to my point of interest:
GUARD BREAK into COUNTER GUARD BREAK - what does the counter guard break actually do? Sure, it pushes the opponent back a little bit (only rewarding if the opponent was stupid enough to attempt a guard break with his back to a hazard), but other than that it only resets the position to where it was before the guard break attempt, and that, in my view, is wrong. With things being as they are right now, if I am close to an enemy, the safest option is ALWAYS to try a guard break. If it connects - great, I get a free attack or opener to whatever. If it gets countered, I just lose a tiny bit of stamina and everything else is exactly as it was before. That's what you call a SAFE MOVE, and there should be no such thing in a fightig game.

Here are two things I would like to see changed about the counter guard break - they're really minor tweaks, but they would make the whole guard break meta a lot more fair and balanced:

1.) attempting a guard break and having it countered should cost you A LOT more stamina. I'm thinking at least as much as a zone attack. This way, you would not be willing to risk a countered guard break twice in a row, or when you are low on stamina.

2.) attempting a guard break with your back to a wall and having it countered should wall stun you the same way as a regular guard break push into a wall. This way, if you were stupid enough to get yourself into a tight spot, there is no easy way out by guard breaking and reverting positions without risk.

Please share your thoughts on the matter and answer the poll.
Thank you.
- eL

I can definetly say that playing from alpha, you understood nothing of this games egolution.
Besides the fact that gb is ballanced, gb its a "surprise" move in hope you can turn the tide of the match, what you are sugesting would further more destroy the game. NOT ONLY that since the game has been released, the confirmed GB from the parry renders attacking pretty useless in this game ("i am afraid" to attack because people just parry for a confirmed gb and high damage) you want to be "punished" on gb atempts two?
Then what the hell am i suposed to do when i encounter an enemy? Emote him to death?
Why gb is ok. If someone attempts a gb, and the other cgb, the one that initiated the gb tryed something and failed. If the other one failed to cgb than hes the dumb one and should get punished from the gb corespondly because lets be honest. Its pretty easy to perform a cgb. The problem of this game is (and the reason ive stopped playing it untill its fixed) is the confirmed gb after a parry. Parries are the easyest thing to pull in this game and the most damaging punish in the game, WITH ACTUALLY NO DOWNSIDE TO IT. So in translation we have a warr fighting game based on defense not attack. People that attack are actually at a disatvantage..
Want to fix this game? Remove confirmed gb after a parry or give a small window to perform a cgb after the "parry gb" and people will actually have tu struggle to win matchea. Jot just defensive meta all day.

[theghosther2017]

Gb is what is making me sick of this game, because I don't have enough time in my life to practice counter gb, and each time I play, I have trouble getting use to it. I know, get gud and stuff, but still. Not being able to counter unblockable is not a big issue, because even if it's generally a powerful move, it doesn't alow your opponents to deal as much damage as a gb. Also, I don't think allowing such things as cutscene combo from only one missed counter gb is normal either. People just play for honor around it, yet it was primarily designed to be a way to surprise your opponent

[eLhabib]

"With things being as they are right now, if I am close to an enemy, the safest option is ALWAYS to try a guard break."

Not against somebody who knows you will GB and throws out light attacks to stop you, then it becomes hazardous.

However, I can see what you mean. I do agree that perhaps there should be a larger stamina penalty to the person who got counter guard-broken.

My only worry with this is, players that are good at GB and counter GB will only benefit more from this. Personally, I'm not very good at counter guard breaking. Maybe I manage it 20% of the time. Dunno why. I can block, parry and deflect pretty consistently, and mix up attacks with the best of them. But i've always suffered with GB for some reason. So when I go up against a CGB god who only capitalises on guaranteed heavies when i'm guard broken, it's incredibly frustrating, and will be even more frustrating when they consistently put me below half stamina when I try and GB them back.

A Highlander I fought last night didn't miss one counter to every guard break I threw at him in two games of Brawl. Even with heavy feint > GB and mix up's. Now if those counter GB's had drained my already difficult to manage stamina, i'd probably be here complaining about it now.

I think you misunderstood me there: of course, only the person who did the initial guard break should receive a large stamina penalty, if the guard break is countered. Not the person countering!

[eLhabib]

Gb is what is making me sick of this game, because I don't have enough time in my life to practice counter gb, and each time I play, I have trouble getting use to it. I know, get gud and stuff, but still. Not being able to counter unblockable is not a big issue, because even if it's generally a powerful move, it doesn't alow your opponents to deal as much damage as a gb. Also, I don't think allowing such things as cutscene combo from only one missed counter gb is normal either. People just play for honor around it, yet it was primarily designed to be a way to surprise your opponent

I couldn't agree more. Actually, I think For Honor would be a better game without any guard break mechanic at all!

[theghosther2017]

Yeah I think so, or with a more complex but less punishable effect way of dealing with it like grapple or something

[Ackturi]

I want to see counter gb immune to outside damage. I play 4s and while i'm busy counter gbing others are just hitting me for free and I still die. 1v2? 1 spams gb while the other just waits for your guard to go away.

[Goat_of_Vermund]

I think the counterguardbreak should deal very low damage to the opponent attempting it (4 or something like that, like chip damage from a weak heavy). However, they should also make defense less rewarding than it is now by taking away the guaranteed guardbreak from parrying and doubling chip damage.

Guardbreaks should be changed, because right now it is very safe, if you are very unlucky, you might eat a light, but there is no real negative consequences of trying it.

[Gemoroda]

Dear God you ppl are unbelivable. Whats next? You want a move that tripps the opponent when he dashes and allows you to do a 70hp execution? Or how about a bitton that does everithing. ****ing lazy meta defenzive ppl that only want to win from punishes witouth even breaking a sweat.
Alltho i wish they would, sometimes im actually happy the devs doesnt listen to the public and the players... fml