Member
Revenge isn't viable, but with a few tweaks, it can be. Revenge needs to be truly uninterruptible and stagger free with a rocky steady feature and a constant hyper armor. No falling down from melees or shield bashes. No attacks that interrupt your well earned rage from getting skillful parries. The only time you should fall down or be staggered is from shigokis huge, and raiders charge. Those are just supposed to be strong characters. Shamans bash shouldn't phase you in revenge and it should really allow you to stand strong. Wardens bash should be a non factor. You can still get ledged, but from an earned guardbreak and not a cheesy melee that completely disregards your attacks. Ganking is too strong and well played moments from season 1 being able to win 1v4 situations is what made this game epic. We're tired of being victimized and exploited, revenge needs the buff. Revenge is supposed to even the odds in a group fight. You should not be knocked on the ground during revenge. I cannot stress enough that centurion pins should not freeze you. Revenge activation should also be INSTANT. If an enemy is in the middle of an attack and it should land, then maybe they can avoid a auto parry, but revenge should still be instant and able to save your life. Animations besides raider charge and shigoki hug should not stop revenge from activating, ESPECIALLY NOT TOE STAB.
Junior Member
Community Manager
We've made quite a few changes to revenge, but it sounds like there's still some room for tweaking and improvements. I'd be interested in seeing how others are feeling about the mechanic these days. Revenge should give you a good chance of survival, but maybe not so much that you can easily win in a 2 or 3v1. I'll mention some of these suggestions and look out for more feedback on the topic.
Member
Thanks Fred, I've been waiting awhile to see if anyone would get back to me. I actually just got back on to repost this exact article because of how essential it is. I personally think this is a great idea and I think that attack staggers are a key factor here that are being eliminated. every time you are hit you are defenseless for a second, so people will use this by timing attacks in a window. you can be instantly killed this way in any group fight and there's nothing you can do. It's victimizing really. I think these follow up attacks should be parry-able at any moment, but not blockable if you are staggered. this will make it so you have a chance to get revenge in a group fight. which is especially important to low health heroes. I also think the bleed should not take effect until after revenge is over, this enables shaman to pounce in revenge and i don't think that's fair. a revenge player should have the opportunity to unleash attacks with no staggers. there are too many mechanics that make revenge not a factor. the melees need to go in revenge. and the centurion pin. revenge should fight through that. no insta kill opportunites should happen to a revenging player. that's why i think this is essential to the balance of the game. new characters are playing through revenge like it's nothing because of these staggers. revenge being tweaked like this will force them to play defensively and smart while prepared to trade blows. revenge basically has the beserker armor, just needs shigoki armor upgrade to to step it up to par with the new meta.
Member
I agree that something needs to be done to make revenge a bit better, but the real improvement I believe it needs is a sort of overhaul rather than a strict buff or nerf. Remember back when revenge was king in season 1? Although it was exciting to win 1v3s and 1v4s occasionally using revenge back then, it was certainly too powerful. Now, it feels like more people are forgoing their revenge stats altogether in order to get an extra 4-6% attack.
I always toyed around with the idea of revenge having a different primary function for each type of character (assassin, heavy, vanguard, etc.). Like, Vanguards got a balance of all the buffs, assassins might only get 40% of their max hp in a shield, but get 20% more damage during revenge and not be uninterrupible. Heavies might get 100% of their hp in a shield, but deal less damage naturally.
OR, you could choose your revenge stats similar to how you choose gear, which would give revenge a different focus for every single character on a player-chosen basis. It'd be fun to be able to pop revenge and have 40% bonus damage but only get 10% of my max hp as a shield and not being uninterruptible. Doing this to revenge would be an exciting way to spice up the mechanics of the game, as well as provide players yet another method of customization for their characters. This could be imbalanced in some way, but with some fixing could be a much more interesting way to make revenge affect playstyle.
Junior Member
In my honest opinion I think Revenge should not be the tool to dish out a lot of damage and overwhelm the enemy in a 1 vs 3 with spamming Zone attacks from Nobushi or something. it should be the tool to stand your guard, be defensive, lure out enemy attack, make them fall for it, remove there stamina and strike back.
Player using Revenge:
- Immunity to all damage and knocked down for one or two Second during activation to avoid Fatal Blows or Knockdowns, to make more use of this make Revenge Pop instant
- to whistant more damage and make more use of the above, enable Revenge gain during Revenge for xx% of the initial gain (if that does not happen already)
- No incoming Chip Damage during Revenge
- Immunity to Stun (Ingame Description: A stunned Opponent cant see your Guard, i.e. Lawbringer Top Heavy, Kensei Throw) I dont like being Top heavied by 2-3 Lawbringer to death, its not balanced if you are perma stunned in Revenge)
- Recovery Time increase by xx% (being able to block or parry faster after attacking, less chance of getting Top heavied by the 3 remaining players)
- Stamina drain enabled, Zone Attack Stamina cost same value, everything else xx% reduce cost
Player attacking Player with Revenge:
- Stamina drain increased by xx% after being parried
- Knocked Down and recover from it increased by xx%
just few things on my mind..
Member
Member
With how quick it is to gain revenge mode, I feel like having even two of these things would be too much and we'd be right back at the start like Season 1. I agree with some stamina things though; perhaps stamina drain on a character attacking a revenged one and having it block is increased to prevent a crazy offensive against a single player? No matter what, I think complete invulnerability for even a full second is extremely problematic, as some characters get quite a bit of time to attack freely with nearly no consequences while others do not. On top of this, invulnerability has no place in a fighting game. Period. People will find a way to abuse it, such as maxing revenge gain and attack, and minimizing revenge duration, thus causing you to have the most opportunities for complete invulnerability.Originally Posted by Kolooo Go to original post
If I played an assassin with revenge attacks and this setup, I'd probably be invincible more often than not against any more than one opponent.
