THE MESSENGER: A Knight for the Knight Faction | Forums

[Jazz117Volkov]

This forum can be a bit of a downer, and I admit I've contributed to that. But! to show some love for the game and the team I wanted to do something more constructive than "your sh!ts broken, fix it plz". Seriously, this is an awesome game, don't ever let anything anyone says, especially me, take away from just how awesome this game is. Anyway, I took some of my free time this week and put together a hypothetical knight character concept.




THE MESSENGER
CLASS: Vanguard
SIGNATURE ABILITY: Aegis Stance
(Aegis Stance would be visually similar to the UGS Weapon Art “stomp” from Dark Souls III)

She would fight with the ferocity and style of Champion Gundyr from Dark Souls III (and he was a source of inspiration for her move-set), but she’d move more elegantly.

Lawbringer’s height.

When a Messenger is executed, she loses her codex (like Aramusha and his hat).
After considering feedback, this detail could be superfluous.

Instead of a third weapon part, Messengers loot Codex (different book covers, essentially).

LORE:
“Long ago a sisterhood of knights swore to cleanse their order of warmongering. They were the Messengers; the wrath of a desecrated standard. Their resolve was unbreakable, their tolerance nonexistent, and always at their side was the codex. Once again they have been called into service by their brothers in law. Wherever they appear the foundations of knighthood are restored and enforced, regardless of whether the accused are under oath. There is no bargaining with the codex; it is stated that the mission is peace; it is stated that compliance will be achieved.”


MOVESET
(Move-set names are deliberately uninspired to provide clarity.)

**note: as pointed out by Fady117, these "flying" attacks mentioned bellow would be a bit ridiculous if they were actually "flying"--I'm using the word a bit liberally. Imagine more of a hop, I suppose. It's more about forward momentum, so actually becoming airborne is 2ndary, and would be very brief.

Light combo: Light, Light
Light heavy combo: Light, Heavy
Heavy light combo: Heavy, Light
Headbutt finisher: (guaranteed) Guardbreak after any two or more successful hits.
Heavy combo: Heavy, Heavy, Heavy(unblockable)
Stun Interrupt: Cancel any standard heavy with a light attack.

Stun Interrupt Properties: Cancel any standard heavy with a light attack (you can pick the direction). It deals very light damage and stuns. If it is the second successful hit in a chain it will guarantee a Headbutt Finisher. However, though quick it is still a light attack, therefore it can be blocked or parried.

Flying Slash (unblockable): Dodge(fwd), Heavy (inflicts bleed; guaranteed from wall-splat)
(Can be used as a chain finisher.)
Flying kick: Cancel Flying Slash with Guardbreak. (High kick properties.)

Side-step slash: Dodge(side), Heavy (Not very effective at dodging attacks)
Side-step headbutt: Cancel side-step slash with Guardbreak

Headbutt: Dodge * Guardbreak
High-kick riposte: Parry * Guardbreak

Headbutt Properties: Light stun, light damage and small knockback. Unblockable, and guaranteed in certain circumstances. Deals bleed if opponent is already bleeding.

High-kick Properties: This. Is. Sparta! (hyper-armour) The kick drains stamina and deals light damage, and bleed if opponent is already bleeding, and has a similar result to Shugoki’s Demon Ball: less distance but can get a wall splat which guarantees a Flying Slash.

Aegis Stance (any direction): Dodge, Dodge
Aegis mix-up (any direction): Cancel any standard heavy or light with Dodge
(Also works with Side-step Slash)
Controlled Crash: Press Dodge to feint Flying Slash into Aegis Stance (cool landing).
Aegis Counter Guardbreak: Dodge while being guard broken to shove off the enemy and enter Aegis Stance. Knocks them significantly further back than standard counter guardbreak, but it consumes more stamina.

Zone Attack: A fast arcing slash from the right side that inflicts fair damage and bleed, followed by a slower airborne slash from the left (the Messenger jumps and performs a Spinning Slash in the air). The second attack is unblockable, fair damage, and can be cancelled. The first attack will guarantee the second attack only if it hits the opponent while they’re wall splatted. The second attack will decapitate if it is the killing blow (zone execute!).

AEGIS STANCE ATTACKS
Poke (H-armour): (Any direction) A unique light attack that inflicts bleed
Uppercut (H-armour/unblockable): Top heavy (bleed, knockback (wall splat), and OOS knockdown)
Crippling Slash (H-armour): Side-heavy (inflicts bleed and kneels opponent)
Grab and Toss: Crippling slash * Guardbreak (wall splat OOS knockdown)
High-kick: Guardbreak (only guaranteed if attack was blocked)

To cancel Aegis Stance, either dodge left, right, or forward—dodge attacks can also be used to cancel Aegis—or dodge back (or independent of direction) to cancel Aegis into a back-step.

perhaps, have her signature unblockables be called Winged Wrath, Heaven's Fury, something along those lines. And she would dash forward and spin the glaive in a half-circle slashing at her foe with her head bent forward. Much like Gundyr's spin after he sprints, but without the spin itself (maybe the spin version could be made into a zone). Have the zone being a forward stab then a jump, spin, and spin-slash, both hits being unblockables. I don't think bleed on zone is a good idea, else it's going to be heavily abused and render her overpowered.

TRAITS AND TECHNIQUES
Aegis Stance has similar properties too all-block: has superior block until recovery, but has utility more like Nobushi's Hidden Stance. You enter the stance with the intent to block an attack and retaliate, but you can't really move while holding it. It's a middle-ground between a block and a parry; the duration it lasts would be in seconds.
In the case of parrying a heavy, you could could cancel your parry/heavy with Aegis, effectively substituting the parry action with the stance's all-block, then retaliate with an Aegis attack. This would make her very survivable in ganks.
Aegis can’t be guard broken on start-up (they bounce off), can be interrupted with a guardbreak after start-up, but that can still be countered.
Aegis Stance duration can be extended slightly by holding the button. Otherwise, cancel or attack as desired.
Stamina won’t regenerate while holding Aegis Stance, and holding it too long will drain stamina, eventuating in OOS.
Aegis superior block also won’t stop unblockable attacks, however the hyper armour on Aegis attacks allows the Messenger to trade if evasion isn’t an option.
As a general rule, activating Aegis Stance from neutral is too slow to block lights and fast heavies on reaction. You need to either set it up—use it to cancel a heavy and block the parry attempt—or anticipate really well. (This would make spamming less effective and also encourage the player to be active.)
Cancelling Flying Slash into Aegis Stance would be particularly effective, not to mention really cool looking.

Heavy attacks caught with Aegis Stance guarantee a heavy response (opponent becomes staggered and loses a large amount of stamina).
Light attacks caught with Aegis guarantee a light response (opponent becomes slightly staggered and loses a small amount of stamina).

The second part of the zone attack and flying slash/kick apply your active execution effect. Example: Hellfire wings.

Highest guaranteed damage: Aegis Stance heavy block + Uppercut + Flying Slash.
(Requires Uppercut to get a wall splat or OOS knockdown.)

Only side heavy is guaranteed off a guardbreak.


FEATS
In addition to the standard Knight Feats, like catapult, heal, bleed resist, etc.

Stronger Together (active): Slowly regenerate self and ally’s health and boost stamina regen.
(Area of effect, The Messenger recites a random variety of passages from the codex (in Latin), and stamina slowly drains to half while active.)
Defender (active): Send two captains to a targeted ally’s defence.
We Must Fight On (active): Revive any allies in the AOE and grant them an armour buff.
Cleansing Fire (active and passive): Active: engulf the area in fire. Passive: immunity to fire damage.

**Fady117 pointed out that "Defender" is probably a bit pointless. Upon reflection, I'm inclined to agree. He proposed a simple armour buff would be more practical.


QUOTES / EXCLAMATIONS
Only a few ideas, and my Latin is garbage so (these could be poor choices) I’m not going near actual sentences, like, ideally when she reads from the codex she’d actually say things that make sense.

Aegis heavy block: Invalidus! [ineffective/powerless]
High-kick riposte: Prius moriatur [die already]
Cleansing Fire Feat: Exterminium [Extermination/eradication/utter destruction]
Aegis counter guardbreak: Perite! [f**k off]


KNIGHTLY EFFECT
Doves
A few doves group around the Messenger, some flying, one lands on her shoulder. They then fly off, leaving a few fleeting white feathers dissipating in their wake.
(The Warden and Lawbringer would get this effect too.)

EXECUTIONS
(The killing blow would leave the glaive buried in the opponent’s shoulder area.)

Kill It Dead!
The Messenger withdraws her glaive and lunges forward with a furious kick that strikes her defenceless enemy in the chest. As they land on their back she leaps forward, her glaive held high. She lands over them with it arcing down to their neck. Their head flies off.

Purge.
The Messenger extracts her glaive and sticks it in the ground, then seizes her enemy’s head and, while reciting ancient codex in Latin, forces them to their knees and twists and jerks their head excessively until their neck breaks—their body goes limp—but she continues and snaps their neck at least one more time before finishing her verse. She then releases the enemy with resentful hands but a dutiful sigh.

**note: Fady117 pointed out that Purge could be too antagonistic and offered a substitute where the Messenger recites her codex then goes for the snap. A single clean motion. I don't mind this idea, but I also wanted Purge to be very violent. It illustrates the Messenger's intolerance and wrath.

The Only Freedom In War...
In a violent motion the Messenger extracts her glaive and thrusts it forward, catching her enemy’s neck with its edge. The blow turns them around; they fall to their knees, holding their throat. She watches them fall with a sidelong glance, then steps forward to kneel by them and places a hand over their face and, while murmuring a hush, lays them down to rest.

Rest In Pieces.
The Messenger steps back from her enemy’s reaching arm and brings her glaive down to chop it off, then around again over their shoulders and takes off their head. She finishes with the glaive resting behind her shoulder and her offhand touching their chest to guide the body down instead of towards her. Her head bows subtly.
(Affecting violin as the body falls.)

You’ve Been Served.
The Messenger grips her glaive and forces her wounded enemy down to their knees where she extracts her weapon and plants it in the ground at her side. She then takes her codex, places it in hand, in very structured movements, and prepares to read. Her kneeling enemy sighs dismissively. She exclaims something in Latin, slams the book shut, and uses it in a mighty uppercut that launches them over backwards.


EMOTES

In Troubled Times
A light wind blows and picks up white feathers as the Messenger stands fast in a forming vortex of several doves. As they circle her she turns her head slightly and tilts her posture. An appropriate melody barely audible behind the wind and birds impresses her enigmatic presence.
(This emote always features doves, regardless of the active effect.)

Light Reading
Plants her glaive in the ground and stands casually, places her codex in hand and begins to read. (She begins reciting random pleasant passages from the codex in Latin.) Turns at least one page before holding the idle until player input.
(Boosts nearby allies Feat recharge speed.)

Fed Up
Throws her glaive down, turns around shouting, throws her codex down, arms gesture in frustration. Unintelligible muttering. Gets over it. Dusts off her codex, picks up her glaive and returns to neutral stance.

Slow Clap
Cradles the glaive inside her shoulder and slowly claps with very unenthused posture. Sighs as she returns to neutral stance.

[FredEx919]

Wow, this is pretty amazing! Excellent job on this. Enjoyed reading through all the details. I'll definitely share this out with the rest of the team. Thanks for posting!

[bob333e]

Dude, I've had a blast reading through this, awesomely gorgeous work and thought you've put into this!! I definitely hope Ubisoft takes note of these amazing details for an upcoming Vanguard-class hero.
Suffice to say, I, too, am an avid Dark Souls addict, and I definitely get where that concept stems from @FredEx919 please allow me to start by visualizing the various references Jazz117Volkov drew his initial concept from.

The glaive weapon from Dark Souls III:



Actual medieval glaive:



The Black Knight Glaive from Dark Souls III:






Gundyr's Halberd from Dark Souls III:






Champion Gundyr himself:





The Stomp Weapon Art stance (pause the video at 0:40):

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Now allow me to provide constructive feedback based on the details above:

Basically, Jazz merged Lawbringer and Gundyr into one, being gender-locked female, I believe; belonging to a long-lost order and being the last harbingers of justice from their order, and they still fight for what is right and for the good of humanity. A very knightly start!

SIGNATURE ABILITY: Aegis Stance
(Aegis Stance would be visually similar to the UGS Weapon Art “stomp” from Dark Souls III)

Now to start with, Aegis roughly translates to shield, royal shield, divine protection etc. While in Dark Souls III, the Stomp Weapon Art rarely presents shielding of any sort and is more of a taunting stance right before the offensive (I should know; I often main a Zweihander, and I really enjoy the Stomp), it's evident that you chose this word, Aegis, for its divination and elegant sounding. Befitting a female Lawbringer nonetheless. But as a combat stance, I do think it would be better if instead of the visual similarity to Stomp, she would hold her halberd/glaive like this, with the head titled a bit more forward, staring at her opponent:

When a Messenger is executed, she loses her codex (like Aramusha and his hat).

It seems like a small and rather insignificant part of her would fall off upon being killed, during actual gameplay it will not really affect her overall appearance like with Aramusha, imo; the codex is attached to her side and is rather a small part of her overall visual identity (Aramusha without his hat is something else entirely, it changes the whole character silhouette). If anything, maybe have her helmet crest fall off or get broken.

Flying Slash (unblockable): Dodge(fwd), Heavy (inflicts bleed; guaranteed from wall-splat)
(Can be used as a chain finisher.)
Flying kick: Cancel Flying Slash with Guardbreak. (High kick properties.)
Zone Attack: A fast arcing slash from the right side that inflicts fair damage and bleed, followed by a slower airborne slash from the left (the Messenger jumps and performs a Spinning Slash in the air). The second attack is unblockable, fair damage, and can be cancelled. The first attack will guarantee the second attack only if it hits the opponent while they’re wall splatted. The second attack will decapitate if it is the killing blow (zone execute!).

I think having too many airborne properties would render her a bit too silly and probably affect her overall impression of size and armor weight; actually, why not tie the names of her signature unblockables, with that of the effect you gave her? under 'Effects', you mentioned doves; perhaps, have her signature unblockables be called Winged Wrath, Heaven's Fury, something along those lines. And she would dash forward and spin the glaive in a half-circle slashing at her foe with her head bent forward. Much like Gundyr's spin after he sprints, but without the spin itself (maybe the spin version could be made into a zone). Have the zone being a forward stab then a jump, spin, and spin-slash, both hits being unblockables. I don't think bleed on zone is a good idea, else it's going to be heavily abused and render her overpowered.

TRAITS AND TECHNIQUES
Aegis Stance has similar properties too all-block: has superior block until recovery.
Aegis can’t be guard broken on start-up (they bounce off), can be interrupted with a guardbreak after start-up, but that can still be countered.
Aegis Stance duration is determined by holding the button. Otherwise, cancel or attack as desired.
Stamina won’t regenerate while holding Aegis Stance, and holding it too long will drain stamina, eventuating in OOS.
Aegis superior block also won’t stop unblockable attacks, however the hyper armour on Aegis attacks allows the Messenger to trade if evasion isn’t an option.
As a general rule, activating Aegis Stance from neutral is too slow to block lights and fast heavies on reaction. You need to either set it up—use it to cancel a heavy and block the parry attempt—or anticipate really well.
Cancelling Flying Slash into Aegis Stance would be particularly effective, not to mention really cool looking.

Now here, having Aegis Stance perform an automatic full-block stance can also be heavily abused, unless there's a set cooldown for Aegis Stance activation and it has a set timer before it wears off; in which case it's starting to act like Revenge here. Best to keep this trait as a feat, not as a moveset ability; I think, if her Aegis Stance would be activated like Highlander's Celtic Curse, while holding down the heavy button, would make a lot more sense, with maybe added very brief static hyperarmor upon Aegis Stance activation to counter any incoming attack.

Aegis Stance not refilling stamina can prove deeply problematic for a number of reasons. This can mean, for instance, if you go into Aegis Stance at any given moment, without having already calculated how much stamina you had, you'll likely end up with less than half of the stamina bar by the time you activate Aegis Stance; leaving you limited offensive options, and by then you'd have wasted time switching stances and you'll get countered. Especially if holding Aegis Stance drains stamina even further; the moment you are OOS, you're sitting ducks for incoming attacks and Aegis Stance would have ultimately proven as a hindrance to your character.

FEATS
Stronger Together (active): Slowly regenerate self and ally’s health and boost stamina regen.
(Area of effect, The Messenger recites a random variety of passages from the codex (in Latin), and stamina slowly drains to half while active.)
Defender (active): Send two captains to a targeted ally’s defence.
We Must Fight On (active): Revive any allies in the AOE and grant them an armour buff.
Cleansing Fire (active and passive): Active: engulf the area in fire. Passive: immunity to fire damage.

Concerning 'Defender', I don't think sending those captain bots will achieve much, especially in Dominion; people switch positions and locations all the time, plus these captains (if we take into consideration Ubisoft's assets that are present in For Honor), are weak and generally only programmed to perform one attack. In my mind's eye, Defender would serve the Messenger better if it was an active shield feat, like those you pick up in Elimination and Skirmish.

For 'Cleansing Fire', I think a permanent immunity to fire damage is a bit too much; maybe a permanent fire resistance by 65% or so. Several of the other heroes have feats involving flame bombs and such, by completely disabling the ability of those feats it kind of seems like an unfair advantage.

EXECUTIONS
(The killing blow would leave the glaive buried in the opponent’s shoulder area.)

Kill It Dead!
The Messenger withdraws her glaive and lunges forward with a furious kick that strikes her defenceless enemy in the chest. As they land on their back she leaps forward, her glaive held high. She lands over them with it arcing down to their neck. Their head flies off.

Purge.
The Messenger extracts her glaive and sticks it in the ground, then seizes her enemy’s head and, while reciting ancient codex in Latin, forces them to their knees and twists and jerks their head excessively until their neck breaks—their body goes limp—but she continues and snaps their neck at least one more time before finishing her verse. She then releases the enemy with resentful hands but a dutiful sigh.

The Only Freedom In War...
In a violent motion the Messenger extracts her glaive and thrusts it forward, catching her enemy’s neck with its edge. The blow turns them around; they fall to their knees, holding their throat. She watches them fall with a sidelong glance, then steps forward to kneel by them and places a hand over their face and, while murmuring a hush, lays them down to rest.

Rest In Pieces.
The Messenger steps back from her enemy’s reaching arm and brings her glaive down to chop it off, then around again over their shoulders and takes off their head. She finishes with the glaive resting behind her shoulder and her offhand touching their chest to guide the body down instead of towards her. Her head bows subtly.
(Affecting violin as the body falls.)

You’ve Been Served.
The Messenger grips her glaive and forces her wounded enemy down to their knees where she extracts her weapon and plants it in the ground at her side. She then takes her codex, places it in hand, in very structured movements, and prepares to read. Her kneeling enemy sighs dismissively. She exclaims something in Latin, slams the book shut, and uses it in a mighty uppercut that launches them over backwards.

Concerning 'Purge', I think it will look visually too taunting on the victim; when it comes to taunting, the heroes that have taunting in their executions (Berserker, Kensei, Lawbringer, Centurion...) usually do it with a limited degree, the most condensed of which is the Centurion's with his thumbs up thumbs down, but even then, there are only two interactions with the victim: one slash to cut the arm, and one stab for the kill. I do think not trespassing this limit would be ideal (seeing as there isn't even cutting opponents in half in For Honor). Say, for 'Purge', ideally it would be she would plant the glaive in the ground, hold the opponent's head, recite stuff in Latin for a few secs while simply squeezing on the opponent's head, then snaps the neck.

'The Only Freedom In War' is looking a bit too fancy, with leaping over the opponent after catching the neck with the edge of the weapon; again, airborne properties are best avoided, while she's a Higher Valkyrie of Justice and Freedom, in terms of gameplay mechanics it would be best to not make her way too angelic; it would reduce her seriousness a bit in my opinion.


That's pretty much the feedback I can give; I agree with the rest of the executions and the emotes as they are gorgeous work, and beautiful detail... I sure hope this character sees the light of day!!

[Jazz117Volkov]

Wow, this is pretty amazing! Excellent job on this. Enjoyed reading through all the details. I'll definitely share this out with the rest of the team. Thanks for posting!

Thanks, mate. I enjoyed writing it.

Dude, I've had a blast reading through this, awesomely gorgeous work and thought you've put into this!! I definitely hope Ubisoft takes note of these amazing details for an upcoming Vanguard-class hero.

Hey! Thanks for the feedback.

Now to start with, Aegis roughly translates to shield, royal shield, divine protection etc. While in Dark Souls III, the Stomp Weapon Art rarely presents shielding of any sort and is more of a taunting stance right before the offensive (I should know; I often main a Zweihander, and I really enjoy the Stomp), it's evident that you chose this word, Aegis, for its divination and elegant sounding. Befitting a female Lawbringer nonetheless. But as a combat stance, I do think it would be better if instead of the visual similarity to Stomp, she would hold her halberd/glaive like this, with the head titled a bit more forward, staring at her opponent:

Ah, I see there's a few holes in my explanation. Okay, so I didn't intend Aegis to be a combat stance, but rather a middle ground between all-block and parrying. The main point is, you can't really move while it's active. Hence the low posture. Less Highlander, more Nobushi hidden stance with an extended all-block instead of i-frames.

Unlike Hidden Stance, it isn't quick enough to dodge attacks on reaction, so you have to set it up or anticipate.

I'll work on clearing that up in the explanation.

It seems like a small and rather insignificant part of her would fall off upon being killed, during actual gameplay it will not really affect her overall appearance like with Aramusha, imo; the codex is attached to her side and is rather a small part of her overall visual identity (Aramusha without his hat is something else entirely, it changes the whole character silhouette). If anything, maybe have her helmet crest fall off or get broken.

Yeah, that's a fair enough point. I sort of imagined it would fly outward as she fell with the pages fluttering or something, but yeah, might be better to not worry about it.

I think having too many airborne properties would render her a bit too silly and probably affect her overall impression of size and armor weight; actually, why not tie the names of her signature unblockables, with that of the effect you gave her? under 'Effects', you mentioned doves; perhaps, have her signature unblockables be called Winged Wrath, Heaven's Fury, something along those lines. And she would dash forward and spin the glaive in a half-circle slashing at her foe with her head bent forward. Much like Gundyr's spin after he sprints, but without the spin itself (maybe the spin version could be made into a zone). Have the zone being a forward stab then a jump, spin, and spin-slash, both hits being unblockables. I don't think bleed on zone is a good idea, else it's going to be heavily abused and render her overpowered.

These are good points.

I was a bit concerned with how "flying" would read. It really does give the impression that she, well...flies. Even if I was thinking something less extreme than actual flying airborne attacks--more like an excited hop, really--but again, your impression was on point. And I like your idea about the naming convention, and also the posture for Heaven's Fury. That would be cool.

I'll add that and credit you.

Now here, having Aegis Stance perform an automatic full-block stance can also be heavily abused, unless there's a set cooldown for Aegis Stance activation and it has a set timer before it wears off; in which case it's starting to act like Revenge here. Best to keep this trait as a feat, not as a moveset ability; I think, if her Aegis Stance would be activated like Highlander's Celtic Curse, while holding down the heavy button, would make a lot more sense, with maybe added very brief static hyperarmor upon Aegis Stance activation to counter any incoming attack.

Aegis Stance not refilling stamina can prove deeply problematic for a number of reasons. This can mean, for instance, if you go into Aegis Stance at any given moment, without having already calculated how much stamina you had, you'll likely end up with less than half of the stamina bar by the time you activate Aegis Stance; leaving you limited offensive options, and by then you'd have wasted time switching stances and you'll get countered. Especially if holding Aegis Stance drains stamina even further; the moment you are OOS, you're sitting ducks for incoming attacks and Aegis Stance would have ultimately proven as a hindrance to your character.

Yeah, this is somewhat the fault of my explanation perhaps.

As I proposed before, it would weave into the gameplay like a tanky version of Hidden Stance, but requiring less precision, and therefore increasing its versatility. It would perform more like a mixup; a substitute for parrying that enables specific guaranteed combos and moves.

If you imagine, you enter Aegis Stance and perform the Uppercut attack. If you didn't block anything, then your opponent is free to behave as they typically would. They'd just dodge and guard break you. I'm not too concerned with how spammy it would be. I don't think good players would abuse it, and as you pointed out, newbie players would get themselves got trying to spam it.

But I'll definitely take on board your feedback and work on the explanation some more.

Concerning 'Defender', I don't think sending those captain bots will achieve much, especially in Dominion; people switch positions and locations all the time, plus these captains (if we take into consideration Ubisoft's assets that are present in For Honor), are weak and generally only programmed to perform one attack. In my mind's eye, Defender would serve the Messenger better if it was an active shield feat, like those you pick up in Elimination and Skirmish.

Yeah, that's a better idea I think.

For 'Cleansing Fire', I think a permanent immunity to fire damage is a bit too much; maybe a permanent fire resistance by 65% or so. Several of the other heroes have feats involving flame bombs and such, by completely disabling the ability of those feats it kind of seems like an unfair advantage.

I actually think the fire immunity would be alright. This would be a level 4 Feat, so it's end-game stuff, and some heroes already have specific attack and defense buffs that counter each other. Think of how important bleed is to PK, Nobushi, and now Shaman, but Wardens are like 'lolno'.

Concerning 'Purge', I think it will look visually too taunting on the victim; when it comes to taunting, the heroes that have taunting in their executions (Berserker, Kensei, Lawbringer, Centurion...) usually do it with a limited degree, the most condensed of which is the Centurion's with his thumbs up thumbs down, but even then, there are only two interactions with the victim: one slash to cut the arm, and one stab for the kill. I do think not trespassing this limit would be ideal (seeing as there isn't even cutting opponents in half in For Honor). Say, for 'Purge', ideally it would be she would plant the glaive in the ground, hold the opponent's head, recite stuff in Latin for a few secs while simply squeezing on the opponent's head, then snaps the neck.

Haha, yeah, you might be right.

I want Purge to reflect her intolerance for savages, and therein illustrating a bit of hypocrisy, but yeah, if it was too excessive it might come off as a bit much.

'The Only Freedom In War' is looking a bit too fancy, with leaping over the opponent after catching the neck with the edge of the weapon; again, airborne properties are best avoided, while she's a Higher Valkyrie of Justice and Freedom, in terms of gameplay mechanics it would be best to not make her way too angelic; it would reduce her seriousness a bit in my opinion.

Kill It Dead! is the one you mean, I think. You have a point, this is For Honor...I mean, we have teleporting ninjas now, but yeah, a semblance of realism should still be considered.

That said, by "flying" I mean a generous hop, like the fwd heavy on the Black Knight Glaive.

That's pretty much the feedback I can give; I agree with the rest of the executions and the emotes as they are gorgeous work, and beautiful detail... I sure hope this character sees the light of day!!

hah, yeah. I mean, I don't mind if Ubi want to use her, they're more than welcome, but they probably have more than enough ideas at this point. I just did this because I thought it would be fun.

Thanks again.

[Archo-Vax]

You know... it's such an immense shame that all of this will be made irrelevant by Shaman.

[Jazz117Volkov]

You know... it's such an immense shame that all of this will be made irrelevant by Shaman.

It's true, Ubi's new characters are quite obnoxious to deal with. Often I find that my victories against Shaman are only because I'm more experienced with the game and know better what mistakes look like than my opponent. Insofar as the kit, she is a bit absurd.

That said, why are you posting that here?

[Archo-Vax]

Just trying to highlight the fact that we don't need new characters, just yet, and that Ubisoft needs to fix the current ones before adding more.

[Jazz117Volkov]

Just trying to highlight the fact that we don't need new characters, just yet, and that Ubisoft needs to fix the current ones before adding more.

That's nice, but that's not actually what you said or highlighted. You're venting about something Ubisoft did in the "Community Creations" section, in a topic about something I did. But if you're so inclined to derail things, knock yourself out. I doubt I'll entertain this further.

[bob333e]

Hey! Thanks for the feedback.

No problem at all, it was an amazing read, and I'm always super eager to discuss creative thought processes! The pleasure is as much as mine as it is yours.

Ah, I see there's a few holes in my explanation. Okay, so I didn't intend Aegis to be a combat stance, but rather a middle ground between all-block and parrying. The main point is, you can't really move while it's active. Hence the low posture. Less Highlander, more Nobushi hidden stance with an extended all-block instead of i-frames.

Unlike Hidden Stance, it isn't quick enough to dodge attacks on reaction, so you have to set it up or anticipate.

Ah so, Aegis Stance is basically like Warlord/Aramusha Full-Block stance? Since full-block also deflects and knockbacks any incoming attack provided it's not a bash move or unblockable, I suppose Aegis Stance categorizes as a full-block stance. Makes more sense here if it drains stamina as long as it is held, like Warlord. You press down on analog (console) to initiate it, no need to hold an attack button. Much better this way.

I was a bit concerned with how "flying" would read. It really does give the impression that she, well...flies. Even if I was thinking something less extreme than actual flying airborne attacks--more like an excited hop, really--

Ahh, I get you, thanks for providing that picture of the Black Knight performing the heavy attack; the idea is now much clearer. This move would be more akin to Berserker's spinning heavy; except, it's with a two-handed weapon, not dual axes. He doesn't exactly "fly", he just hops above the ground to the side, and performs a hyperarmored heavy with a spin. I actually like the thought.

your impression was on point. And I like your idea about the naming convention, and also the posture for Heaven's Fury. That would be cool.

I'll add that and credit you.

Thanks a lot! it's delightful to know I was able to provide coherent feedback. And yeah, to me, naming conventions are as important as character design and conception. More often than not, names alone tell tales worth a thousand words.

As I proposed before, it would weave into the gameplay like a tanky version of Hidden Stance, but requiring less precision, and therefore increasing its versatility. It would perform more like a mixup; a substitute for parrying that enables specific guaranteed combos and moves.

If you imagine, you enter Aegis Stance and perform the Uppercut attack. If you didn't block anything, then your opponent is free to behave as they typically would. They'd just dodge and guard break you. I'm not too concerned with how spammy it would be. I don't think good players would abuse it, and as you pointed out, newbie players would get themselves got trying to spam it.

I get you, much like Aramusha's full-block into unblockable kick, which then guarantees wallsplat if near a wall; opens up further chaining from there. Though if I may add, instead of a simple uppercut, wouldn't it be cooler if she instead uses the hilt/pommel/spearhead side of her glaive, slashing and/or thrusting it in an upward swing? with maybe, just maybe, if you perform a successful full-block knockback, and you immediately initiate this upward slash with the spearhead, it's a bleed attack. The window to pull it off is strict, can't wait too long after the knockback from the full-block Aegis Stance. In which case, the full-block also partially acts like a deflect, which is super cool.

I actually think the fire immunity would be alright. This would be a level 4 Feat, so it's end-game stuff, and some heroes already have specific attack and defense buffs that counter each other. Think of how important bleed is to PK, Nobushi, and now Shaman, but Wardens are like 'lolno'.

Ahah, Thick Blood is actually very temporary bleed resist and it wears off in 3 secs, it's only to negate bleed upon a bleed hit; but if you're hit with bleed again immediately after it wears off, the bleed will register while Thick Blood is still in cooldown. Also, I don't use it much in PvP; I always choose Fiat Lux (Warden main here).

I want Purge to reflect her intolerance for savages, and therein illustrating a bit of hypocrisy, but yeah, if it was too excessive it might come off as a bit much.

I get where you're coming from; Messengers have their nemeses, the savages (but in the scope of For Honor, who are these savages? do they classify as Vikings, or Samurai, or unfaithful Knights?) on which thought, perhaps have a special execution animation exclusively against Viking heroes, but that's probably far-fetched seeing as the execution becomes too situational.

hah, yeah. I mean, I don't mind if Ubi want to use her, they're more than welcome, but they probably have more than enough ideas at this point. I just did this because I thought it would be fun.

Thanks again.

Don't mention it! I thoroughly enjoy this conversation, probably more than I should; I have no regrets. I'd happily engage in further, deeper detail, the deeper we delve into the creation process of the Messengers and yeah, while Ubisoft certainly have their own plans for future heroes, it wouldn't hurt them the least to at least draw reference from this thread.

[Jazz117Volkov]

Ah so, Aegis Stance is basically like Warlord/Aramusha Full-Block stance? Since full-block also deflects and knockbacks any incoming attack provided it's not a bash move or unblockable, I suppose Aegis Stance categorizes as a full-block stance. Makes more sense here if it drains stamina as long as it is held, like Warlord. You press down on analog (console) to initiate it, no need to hold an attack button. Much better this way.

Yeah, that's right. I'd be curious to see how fast it could be before it gets unbalanced. Like, Aramusha can block most attacks on reaction and it doesn't feel ridiculous to fight (his infinite lights are worse, lol), granted the Messenger's ripostes are much more devastating.

I imagine its greatest utility would be an attack cancel. Be very useful against careless spam classes like PK and now Shaman. Bait one of their side-step heavies with a top/side attack, cancel into Aegis, and especially against PK, you'd get the heavy riposte, because PK's dodge attack is a heavy. Other Vanguard classes usually need to feint into parry and perform a typical parry punish, so it's not an entirely new concept, just more dangerous for the careless.

Ahh, I get you, thanks for providing that picture of the Black Knight performing the heavy attack; the idea is now much clearer. This move would be more akin to Berserker's spinning heavy; except, it's with a two-handed weapon, not dual axes. He doesn't exactly "fly", he just hops above the ground to the side, and performs a hyperarmored heavy with a spin. I actually like the thought.

Yeah, that's right.

I'd want her to look light on her feet while she's performing her moves, but then also impress the weight of the armour when she finishes or lands. There'd be lots of metallic noises, and a little camera shake if you cancel Flying Slash into Aegis.

Thanks a lot! it's delightful to know I was able to provide coherent feedback. And yeah, to me, naming conventions are as important as character design and conception. More often than not, names alone tell tales worth a thousand words.

haha, I agree. Names need to be right.

I get you, much like Aramusha's full-block into unblockable kick, which then guarantees wallsplat if near a wall; opens up further chaining from there. Though if I may add, instead of a simple uppercut, wouldn't it be cooler if she instead uses the hilt/pommel/spearhead side of her glaive, slashing and/or thrusting it in an upward swing? with maybe, just maybe, if you perform a successful full-block knockback, and you immediately initiate this upward slash with the spearhead, it's a bleed attack. The window to pull it off is strict, can't wait too long after the knockback from the full-block Aegis Stance. In which case, the full-block also partially acts like a deflect, which is super cool.

Yeah, I was actually considering having a few more unique ripostes from Aegis. Like, the stance offers several unique attacks, like the uppercut, crippling slash, etc. but those are just your attacks from Aegis; initiating an attack while the block/deflect registers (like an assassin deflect or Centurion riposte) you could get different options again, or simply more powerful versions of the standard Aegis attacks.

Ahah, Thick Blood is actually very temporary bleed resist and it wears off in 3 secs, it's only to negate bleed upon a bleed hit; but if you're hit with bleed again immediately after it wears off, the bleed will register while Thick Blood is still in cooldown. Also, I don't use it much in PvP; I always choose Fiat Lux (Warden main here).

Hah! I main Warden too.

Yeah, they did change thick blood I suppose, balancing and all that.

Perhaps Cleansing Fire only gives full fire immunity while it's active. The passive is, like you said, only about 65%.

I get where you're coming from; Messengers have their nemeses, the savages (but in the scope of For Honor, who are these savages? do they classify as Vikings, or Samurai, or unfaithful Knights?) on which thought, perhaps have a special execution animation exclusively against Viking heroes, but that's probably far-fetched seeing as the execution becomes too situational.

All of the above, haha.

On a serious note, maybe not unique animations for the different factions, but what about different dialogue. Like, it would make a lot of sense to recite her codex to fallen Knights, but against Vikings there would be little point, and against the Samurai, I imagine she would have a degree of respect for their sophistication, but still recognize them as opposing her code, so maybe something different again.

Don't mention it! I thoroughly enjoy this conversation, probably more than I should; I have no regrets. I'd happily engage in further, deeper detail, the deeper we delve into the creation process of the Messengers and yeah, while Ubisoft certainly have their own plans for future heroes, it wouldn't hurt them the least to at least draw reference from this thread.

Yeah, I'm keen to see what they're doing for the original cast. Going into matches nowadays as my main, I feel like a member of the old guard protecting the newbies from these Shaman monsters.

Ubi need to increase the reactability of some of these heroes. It's a bit sad to see that core methodical gameplay of the early days get brushed aside in favour of light spam and godlike tracking.