Raider isn’t OP but........ | Forums

[Mtcmnkk]

No character should be able to still attack you like Raider does whole OOS. Garbage. Don’t need ledges on Geyser board. People talk about Centurion but if he knocks you down, he does a pounce for 30. Raider knocks you to the ground you are losing more than twice that. As a character he isn’t OP, but he has a couple moves that are too strong and shouldn’t do as much damage as they do. Only person stronger with hits while on the ground is Berserker. Give him some moves if you wish. But to lose 80-90 damage in 2 hits is stupid.

Two with raider or six with Warden take your pick

[mrmistark]

I think the whole point about stunning tap is to drain stamina; otherwise if it gets nerfed, it'd just be a slap on the wrist compared to the rest of his moves. A big downgrade on Raider.

My issue with Raider, is that he can carry/charge you after parrying you, even when he's OOS. He shouldn't be able to run you around if he's OOS.

Otherwise I'm fine with Raider. He's very counterable. It's a matter of response time / reaction time and reading his UB feint into tap, or the flashing light of the UB to parry it.

Concerning ledging, it's not Raider's fault; it's the over-abundance of ledges everywhere.

This exactly. I think the tap is, eh, I won’t say OP, maybe the drain may be a little over tuned just a tad, but again, it’s one of his only mix ups. The parry into charge for instant throw-> heavy-> zone mix- up is too strong honestly.

ATTACK-BEST CASE PUNISHMENT SCENARIO
Eat zone- take zone in chain damage, recover to neutral

Try to parry- in turn get parried for 2nd free heavy and zone in chain (9/10 times death)

Get hit with stunning tap- stamina drain, tap damage

Gb into another charge- back to 0 on exhaustion recovery, another heavy attack into zone mix-up


As you can see your best bet is to hold guard to side to try to convince them that you’ll parry (they may cancel waiting for you to try to parry best case scenario leaving you at neutral) and then move guard on top upon reaction and wait for the CGB. That being said though, that means that you have to be prepared for 5 viable moves for the mix-up if you include hard cancel into lights too. The only other character to have this many on an unblockable is Kensei, and his is a chain finisher who’s mix ups are not even half as strong as they don’t give any sort of OOS entrapment not to mention all of this stemmed from one move: GB for charge. I’m surprised you are more worried about the tap.

[Arekonator]

Wait what? He cant get a heavy on you except OOS side/back throw or wall stagger. The charge throw guarantees only normal zone which does less damage than average heavy and finishes the chain.

[bananaflow2017]

#1. Wrong. Half the characters have equivalent ganking. Cent gladiator and shaman all have better.

#2. He has a very strong max punish but other characters have equally good kits that level the playing field

#1 half of the characters can only stagger u for a short time. U also can use revenge when when u get toe stabbed them for example. But when a Raider catches u with his stampede u even cant use revenge for sometimes more than 3 seconds. That grants 2-3 hevies for your mate and thats ur dead. Only shugoki has got something simular. But shugokis hug is more predictable cuz he has to prepare it for like a half year. Even shaman isnt that strong. In a normal gank situation it's hard die her to her bleeding on u. Also all the unblockables from cent, glad etc are getting interrupted when they get hit. Often u cant finish ur atacks cuz a teammate hits u from anywhere ( I'm looking at u kensei). Raider got hyperarmor so u cant stop him....

#2 this allways denpends on what you are looking at. In 4v4 ? Lawbringer for example got a kit that is relatable strong. The other 2 Meta heroes (nobushi and zerker) are so strong because they profit of the other 2 characters kit and are strong in group fights (heavy target switch repeat)

[Charmzzz]

#1. Wrong. Half the characters have equivalent ganking. Cent gladiator and shaman all have better.

#2. He has a very strong max punish but other characters have equally good kits that level the playing field

Yea his one good defensive trait. Other characters have Dodge attacks full block and deflects. The raiders dodge stunning tap is garbage

#1 half of the characters can only stagger u for a short time. U also can use revenge when when u get toe stabbed them for example. But when a Raider catches u with his stampede u even cant use revenge for sometimes more than 3 seconds. That grants 2-3 hevies for your mate and thats ur dead. Only shugoki has got something simular. But shugokis hug is more predictable cuz he has to prepare it for like a half year. Even shaman isnt that strong. In a normal gank situation it's hard die her to her bleeding on u. Also all the unblockables from cent, glad etc are getting interrupted when they get hit. Often u cant finish ur atacks cuz a teammate hits u from anywhere ( I'm looking at u kensei). Raider got hyperarmor so u cant stop him....

#2 this allways denpends on what you are looking at. In 4v4 ? Lawbringer for example got a kit that is relatable strong. The other 2 Meta heroes (nobushi and zerker) are so strong because they profit of the other 2 characters kit and are strong in group fights (heavy target switch repeat)

+1 bananaflow2017. Exactly my thoughts. But on #1 you forgot Shinobi Sickle Rain. Complete list of "cutscenes" where you completely lose control and do not recover from the first hit:
- Shinobi Sickle Rain
- Shugoki Demon Embrace
- Centurion Knockdown
- Raider Stampede
- Lawbringer Impale
- Warlord Running Charge

All of these moves would be fine if you would recover after a hit. But the way they are now - they are completely OP in 4v4. I play in a pretty high MMR and I see people abusing Stampede, Impale, Sickle Rain and Demon Embrace all over. Full Teams that really want to win go for Raider, Nobushi, Zerker/Shinobi, LB/Shugoki. It comes down to insane amounts of damage you CANNOT avoid all the time, even when Revenge is ready.

[bananaflow2017]

+1 bananaflow2017. Exactly my thoughts. But on #1 you forgot Shinobi Sickle Rain. Complete list of "cutscenes" where you completely lose control and do not recover from the first hit:
- Shinobi Sickle Rain
- Shugoki Demon Embrace
- Centurion Knockdown
- Raider Stampede
- Lawbringer Impale
- Warlord Running Charge

All of these moves would be fine if you would recover after a hit. But the way they are now - they are completely OP in 4v4. I play in a pretty high MMR and I see people abusing Stampede, Impale, Sickle Rain and Demon Embrace all over. Full Teams that really want to win go for Raider, Nobushi, Zerker/Shinobi, LB/Shugoki. It comes down to insane amounts of damage you CANNOT avoid all the time, even when Revenge is ready.

Same here! I meet teams like this very often.... And this is just ridiculus.
I think the Raider and the lb are mostly picked cuz bis stampede and impale are a little more reliable. Also the Raider has got a big teamfight potential outside his stampede. When u just light 1 enemy and zone another u can sometimes hit up to 3 enemies. This is such an ultimately strong move cuz only the targeted player can parry it (such a ******** mechanic...).
And i meet this teams in normal Xbox games during a minday evening. I know nobody likes mindays, but what kind of day did u have behind you to Play Stuff like that?

[Charmzzz]

This is such an ultimately strong move cuz only the targeted player can parry it (such a ******** mechanic...).

That is the worst about it. The combo-zone does what, 50 Damage? In a super-wide arc? And you cannot parry unless you are targeted? Nerf it... Or give me, finally, a chance to parry EVERY attack that would hit me. I do not want to and cannot dodge all of this bullsht in a 4v4 mess of attacks flying all over the place. I can parry these moves reliably, if I had the chance to do it.

[Charmzzz]

Raider does not get heavy from parry, guard break or throw (unless you are oos when you fall to ground just like with other heroes, not when you are not). He gets either zone (28dmg) or if he can carry you to wall, a knee to face and light (15+15=30)

Do not forget that carrying you to a wall and kicking with knee drains alot of stamina and dazes you - Raider can instantly start his mixup guess game with the probably feinted zone into stunning tap into comboed zone...

Edit: and surely he gets a guaranteed GB after parry (heavy or light) on low range Characters! Also he does get a heavy after a light parry guaranteed.

[BTTrinity]

Stunning tap is. Sorry, but it is bs how much stamina that one hit drains. Win or lose I really don’t care. But to have something completely wipe you out in 1 stupid little move is nuts. And if you go to the ground right after, well hello 2 heavies that take a huge chunk of health. So his charge takes half or a little more and tap takes even more. No stamina drain should be that severe. And something else, if he is out of stamina he shouldn’t be able to tackle you and knee you in the face. That is utter bullsh*t.

My only issue with him is the stamina drain, his charge should only drain stamina on a wallsplat.... Not while hes running with you.

[toninhocaganera]

I'm only playing with the Vikings, I'm rep 16 with Raider and honestly ... I do not believe they have problems with stuning tap ... maybe if you're a beginner and do not know Raider's dirty game, but whenever I play against opponents more experienced rarely the stunning tap lands, I honestly find Raider the Viking easier to kill. The deal is as follows, do not try to parry side attacks just defend and be always ready to parry the stinning tap, there is no mystery. as for the zone attack ... simply dodge so you avoid the attack and the possible stunning tap. the problem is that they are complaining and soon Ubi (who does not know how to take decisions) ends up killing the character exactly as they did with Warlord and meanwhile the PK, cents aramusha and shaman remain OP.

and closing, if the Raider is as strong as they speak because I do not see him winning tournaments?