why are samurai so lacking in hp? | Forums

[TSCDescon]

He takes more damage, he doesnt lose health. Try not to confuse those two things

You're missing the point.

[ArchDukeInstinct]

all the other faction 120 hp fighters are classified as assasins though. while samurai tanks and vanguard also have the low hp. i would even argue that peacekeeper and shaman have virtually more hp because of the lvl 2 feat.

if you compare only the vanguards than kensei is clearly the underdog. his "strengt" having the high damaging lights is actually outplayed by wardens double lights wich do more damage and lead directly into his sb/sb gb/sb cancel play.
and raider has by far the better stats. more hp more stamina. higher overall attack. and his pommelstrike is more versitile than any of kenseis lights. sure they do 2 less damage but are more rewarding for stun + stamina drain and are petter implemented into his soft feints.

out of the tanks well jeah warlord is still king no doubt.

nobushi is a good hybrid i agree. but i feel lawbringer is a much saver choice because of the highest hp in the game and the ability to get damage by just blocking. and even though cent is the only one with less than 120 hp of the other factions his charged combo damage is so severe thats what a actuall "Glas cannon" feels like (especailly in 4v4 modes with haymaker).

out of the assasins id say the crown goes clearly to shaman (even if her heavy damage is getting reduced) and Gladioator. sure top lights on orochi are his trademark but thats why everyone will keep the guard up and then orochi has nothing... well exept spamming zone i gues?

And the Knight/Viking classes who aren't assassins and have more health tend to have worse attack speeds, etc even though you claimed they didn't have drawbacks like that. So what's the problem here?

Why should Aramusha, a heavy/vanguard hybrid, get the HP of a heavy when he doesn't have the attack speed of one? Also another heavy/vanguard hybrid, the highlander, only has 5 extra HP compared to Aramusha and he still has pathetically slow 600ms lights when in his defensive mode...

Yes, Kensei is bottom tier, nobody argued otherwise.

Warlord is normalized now and I know it's not the good old days where Shugoki just repeatedly spammed Oni Charge and got free wins but he's still pretty good with his 160 HP, free hyper armor, and easy ability to regain a ton of health just by parrying near a wall. It's crazy how something like that still exists in the game.

Lawbringer doesn't have guaranteed damage on block, you just dodge the light after the block shove lol

Apparently top light and zone attack is all Orochi needs anyway given they don't have trouble getting top 4 in tournaments such as the Season 3 tournament. They're so weak, they even beat a prenerfed Warlord in the top 8 2-0.

[Knight_Raime]

I don't agree about them being the weakest actually.
Orochi is still solid enough to be taken to the finals in most tournaments.
Bushi is not bad at all.
Goki isn't bad but isn't good. He's better off than conq imo.
and kensei is bad because of the way the game currently plays. I would argue that valk is actually worse.

If I had to say who was the "best" faction it would probably be knights.
the only bad kit there is conq. And while warden isn't amazing anymore he's still a trouble for most players. I think he's more reliable compared to raider or kensei all skill levels considered.
Centurion's kit is flawed too but at least he works in this meta with being a punish machine.

I tend to view the vikings and samurai as equals.

[SenBotsu893]

And the Knight/Viking classes who aren't assassins and have more health tend to have worse attack speeds, etc even though you claimed they didn't have drawbacks like that. So what's the problem here?

thats actually wrong and the whole point of my post. if you check the numbers you will see all those higher hp knights/vickings have accsess to 500 ms attacks as well. even conq has a 400ms bash wich since the removal of timesnap grants a free heavy in certain cenarios.
Lawbringer has also 500 ms attacks in his kit and you are bound to get hit after a shove sooner or later. dodge after the shove.. next time hes gonna gb you and then you eat a nice heavy.

and many already mentioned that 160 hp on shugoki is just smoke and mirrors. warlord has still the free damage headbutt AND basically the same armor properties like shugoki with superior block on light and hyperarmor on heavys while not suffering from a 25% damage panalty.

and if you refer to that match where the orochi won by ONLY using zone. that was the ugly truth about how this game is played in tryhard. and thats not how i like to play the game. simply spamming one and the same move over and over again is the exact opposite of fun for me. you could do that with gladiator with even better results.

[ArchDukeInstinct]

thats actually wrong and the whole point of my post. if you check the numbers you will see all those higher hp knights/vickings have accsess to 500 ms attacks as well.

So basically your argument is that it doesn't matter if you have slow light attacks as long as you have access to faster moves? How unbelievably idiotic.
Almost every single character in this game has a 400ms attack because that's how fast guard break is for most characters. I guess they don't need their slower light attacks anymore, right?
Of course they do, guard breaks are very easy to counter on reaction and you'd be ridiculously predictable if all you did was your fastest attack.

even conq has a 400ms bash wich since the removal of timesnap grants a free heavy in certain cenarios.

Nope, you need to check your numbers again: https://youtu.be/BPF_QafJ4jY?t=1m2s

Furthermore conqueror has to dash to even initiate the shield bash giving you more time to anticipate and then react.
My guess is that you were actually hit with shield bashes done from full block stance or after a heavy, these are slower forms of the move that grant a heavy if successful.

Lawbringer has also 500 ms attacks in his kit and you are bound to get hit after a shove sooner or later. dodge after the shove.. next time hes gonna gb you and then you eat a nice heavy.

This lawbringer "50/50" stuff is so old news, man, if you don't see a light coming immediately after the shove then you don't dodge.

and many already mentioned that 160 hp on shugoki is just smoke and mirrors. warlord has still the free damage headbutt AND basically the same armor properties like shugoki with superior block on light and hyperarmor on heavys while not suffering from a 25% damage panalty.

Again Shugoki only has "120 hp" if every single attack hits you while hyper armor is down. If they wanted Shugoki to be 120 hp, they would have just made him that and got rid of the extra damage when hyper armor is down. This mechanic adds additional depth to the character. Additionally he can regenerate that health without any feats unlike the other heavies. Not sure why you choose to just drive over this crucial fact if you legitimately care to prove what you claim.

and if you refer to that match where the orochi won by ONLY using zone. that was the ugly truth about how this game is played in tryhard. and thats not how i like to play the game. simply spamming one and the same move over and over again is the exact opposite of fun for me. you could do that with gladiator with even better results.

How you want to play is completely irrelevant to the point of this thread.

[King_of_games-SP]

You're missing the point.

no it seems you have missed the point. The point being that shugoki does in fact have 160 hp and losing his armor does not lower the overall amount of health he has, just means the enemy magically does more damage due to a questionable game mechanic. These things are completely different and one of them is a bold faced lie

[Tyrjo]

Not that it really means anything because heroes play so differently.

HP average
Knights: 128.3
Vikings: 127.5
Samurai: 125.8

[Charmzzz]

Not that it really means anything because heroes play so differently.

HP average
Knights: 128.3
Vikings: 127.5
Samurai: 125.8

Best answer, I think that the OP misses the point that most Characters are, HP-wise, in a range of 1 Light Attack with the exception of the Heavy-Classes and Raider / Shinobi. 1 Light or 1 Heavy. Don't over-exaggerate this fact please.

[Vordred]

the only two i think have slightly off HP, are the two Vangaurd/Heavies the Highlander and Aramusha. but even then out of the two i would lean more towards the Highlander, he is a big dude that goes for trades, but has pretty weak HP.

so he either need more HP or needs to hit harder, as currently, the Shaman hits on average about has hard as the Highlander, and only has 5 less HP, not to mention her attacks are way way faster.

[Charmzzz]

the only two i think have slightly off HP, are the two Vangaurd/Heavies the Highlander and Aramusha. but even then out of the two i would lean more towards the Highlander, he is a big dude that goes for trades, but has pretty weak HP.

so he either need more HP or needs to hit harder, as currently, the Shaman hits on average about has hard as the Highlander, and only has 5 less HP, not to mention her attacks are way way faster.

Hm, maybe consider this before you say that Shaman hits harder than Highlander: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...Kgc/edit#gid=0

And do not forget that Highlander has Hyperarmor on his heavy attacks and he can counterstrike with his Lights. I do not want to say that they are on par concerning effectiveness, but that is not related to damage numbers.