Yes, She's OP (explain)
No, She's not OP (explain)
Junior Member
Senior Member
I voted no. To me over powered means non counterable, super easy to abuse, high damaging stuff.
Having both played as her and against her a decent bit now I am starting to see what counters her and what flaws she has.
She is overtuned. Which specifically refers to her numbers. the amount of damage she can potentially do, the amount of health/regen bite gives, and her recovery are all things that can be considered tilted a bit too far on the strong side. I personally think to balance her out the devs should look at 2 of these. maybe all 3. She's got a really good kit. She doesn't need to have the best damage and fastest recovery as well.
Senior Member
Not voting because for me I would like to see how she is once the tracking has been changed next patch and if the devs intended the pounce to bypass revenge and, according to someone on this forum, hidden stance. In terms of the latter, does anyone know if demon's embrace negate hidden stance? I can see that for both of them simply because they are not jabbing a weapon, they are throwing themselves bodily at her with their whole body, still would be nice to know if intended.
As Raime said,she is perhaps a bit overtuned but one thing I will say is she has to be aggressive. She has a dodge side attack but it neither goes into a chain like berserker nor has extra damage like peacekeeper with the bleed so at best you are whittling away and speaking of bleeds, you either need to finish a chain,all of which end with a heavy, cancel a zone or heavy with a very short range attack or score a deflect which comes with it the risk of eating an attack (not complaining about any of this before someone says I am being salty over it, I think that is a good call, I don't want her getting bleed as easily as Peacekeeper gets it), so while the pounce may need toning down and maybe the bleed damage, the means of getting bleed are fairly balanced. The forward/back dodge attack can come with an attack from any direction but again chains into nothing and is dodgeable/parryable as is the unblockable chain finish form the left.
Member
Voted OP because: she has way too many tools compared to original chars. Her pounce is overtuned, to have both a second chance to hit and a no-recovery feint on it is makes this move basicly unpunishable, not to mention that is fast as hell and has way too good tracking on it.
Member
I agree with Knight_Raime in regards to not OP, just overtuned. Her move set and combos are well put together, but I'm not really feeling weak in the grey gear like I did with Shinobi and Highlander when they were first released. I've downed people from 100% with the leaping attack > unblockable heavy from left > apply bleed > GB > Throw > Neckbite while still in greys and no def pen. Granted, that's plenty they can counter, but I feel that should at most probably just take 50% especially in grey gear. If they don't change her and I get to 180 GS, should be interesting.
Member
Voted Yes for the same reasons Knight_Raime said no lol. Her numbers are too high and she has a way better kit that all of the heroes so far, especially the older ones. I'm not saying she would be hard to balance; remove her ability to feint her pounce, increase its recovery, remove her ability to soft feint her attacks in any direction, especially with that speed she has, i can only imagine how the console players must feel. Reworke the numbers. All of this can be done in a week tops, but guess what we will hear from UBI; collecting data, centurion all over again... IMHO, You can't release a hero like that while the older cast hasn't received its (obviously) needed reworks. If you do, you just send a message that you mostly care about season passes and not balance or your older players at all...
Senior Member
Senior Member
If shaman had easier access to bleed or actual combo potential with her throws/dodges I could see removing her strong feint game with pounce and toning down her feint game with all direction soft feints. But bleed is difficult to do. And her leaping/dashing attacks don't combo into anything. I play on console and i'm already fighting/blocking bleed attempts. And playing as shaman i've been shut down by passive assassins that wait for me to pounce to either dodge and GB or dodge attack. 1 such person was smart enough to hit me with 500ms lights to stop my pounce period.Originally Posted by Justicator Go to original post
I'm all for them increasing it's recovery though. It needs a better tell on when you're swapping between it and wildcats rage. Potentially they could also nerf the range in which you can cancel it. As of right now you can both hard cancel and soft cancel pounce/bit up to halfway through the animation. I think that might be acceptable for switching from pounce to rage or vise versa. But not for hard canceling.
Senior Member
I would agree with increasing recovery and with reducing the range of her charging attacks, the dodge heavy forward/back has range to it as does the pounce, I had a character escape roll away from me and the follow up pounce just nailed him which felt dirty given that was the only one in about eight rounds I got but I disagree with the feint game and the soft feint multi direction being changed.Originally Posted by Justicator Go to original post
Shaman is a character that forces aggression and has to be aggressive in turn. In terms of the soft feint, it is actually harder to hit than the peacekeeper's and that only comes from the direction of the heavy it cancelled, this is because of the short range, you have to judge very carefully what you do and if the opponent is being aggressive it is difficult to hit even when you are in range. The feint game plays into the fact that the opponent is expecting the charge as soon as they bleed, it is a way of forcing a reaction, if you can't adjust the timing or not go for it at all then it is an easy heavy or dodge (though again the range of the follow up could do with changing). Aggression shuts down a lot of her offence, the hardest duel I have had to date has been against a berserker because he was doing what berserkers do, none stop harassment. Again,not that I am complaining about any of this, the fact that bleeds are difficult to get and the pounce can be read and dealt with is what, when the tracking and distance is sorted, will keep that balanced but the tools she has been given is the boost she gets for that.
I also agree that the OG need reworks and that her kit is the benchmark they should be aiming for, the devs are working on those, first batch will be the conqueror, berserker and kensei so we will have to see what they come up with once those drop.
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