My New Tier List | Forums

[bananaflow2017]

I think this should be divided into 4v4 and 1v1...
Actual 4v4 meta:
Raider, lb, zerker, noobu.
Easy thing: just gank and stunlock so zerker and noobu just can do theire glass canon stuff.
So I think these 4 are the top tier. Not cuz of theire kit itself. It's because of theire synergizing with the Raider and the lb.
1v1 is a tottally other thing. Here is a strong Cent for example. If you cant gank him like in the 4v4 modes he is a really hard punishing wall.
In 4v4 u can cut through him like a piece of paper if u gank him.
Same for a pk or a shinobi.
Warden is also really strong in 1v1 same as a good wl still is.
Also the lb is still strong in 1v1. But 1v1 is only about turteling and how to avoid getting turteled by ur enemy.

[Tyrjo]

Are we playing the same game here? I don't remember being able to punish this move on a dodge. Please enlighten.

WL headbutt is very punishable on dodge.

[Netcode_err_404]

Raider and LB are Top Tier in 4v4 for sure. Stampede / Impale are, together with Shinobi ranged GB and Cent charged heavy, by far the best ganking moves in the game. Add Shove-50-50 and stunning tap into mixup spam to this and there you go. Every good team contains a Nobushi for his teamfight and minion-clearing potential plus a Raider and a LB.

Warden can at least force a reaction from LB through SB, PK can't. LB can just stand there and put his guard to the right, then block into Shove 50-50 all day. LB gets a parry on a Light? Boom, 45 Damage. Same for Raider. Parry a heavy? Wall-splat available? Oh boy, you are pretty screwed now. Eat alot of stamina damage from Raider + free Light into UB Zone mixup or eat a Heavy into Shove into 50-50 mixup from LB. Raider can do this too. Every hero with constant guard and a good-reflex player can just turtle up and wait for his mates to arrive in 4v4 or wait for a parry into a heavy punish. Also, LB has 150 (or 145?) HP. Raider 140. PK 120, Warden 130.

I would place Raider and LB higher than PK, maybe not Warden since he has an UB move as well. In high level play it mostly comes down to forcing a reaction from the opponent so you can punish that, and PK cannot do this at all.

4v4 is a trash mode for a lot of reasons, but at least has 2 pros :

1) People cannot turtle too much

2) every class can be used and every class can be effective.


LB and raider are good in 4v4 for ****ty reasons. And a lot of people here, me included are agianst these free istant pokes out of the screen that can lead to wall splat and free damage every time, its stupid and feels cheap.

However, raider parry punish is 50 not 45.


In a 1vx situation a light spamming pk is death sentence, You cannot dodge dashes,from a conq and in the same time blocking istant lightning lights,

[Charmzzz]

4v4 is a trash mode for a lot of reasons, but at least has 2 pros :

1) People cannot turtle too much

2) every class can be used and every class can be effective.


LB and raider are good in 4v4 for ****ty reasons. And a lot of people here, me included are agianst these free istant pokes out of the screen that can lead to wall splat and free damage every time, its stupid and feels cheap.

However, raider parry punish is 50 not 45.


In a 1vx situation a light spamming pk is death sentence, You cannot dodge dashes,from a conq and in the same time blocking istant lightning lights,

Still you used the cheese-moves 90% of the time when I faced you several times in Dominion.

And why is PK special in that case? Every 500ms Light (Top Light of Warden, LB, Valk, Glad, Orochi etc etc) would be the same in a 1vX scenario because you only have to block the side where your not-locked target is attacking from to block all their attacks. PK is even pretty bad in this since she has no UB to force a reaction on the ganked guy. The only good move is soft-feint into GB in those situations. On every other occasion where, e.g. a Raider Stampede or LB Impale, hits you go for a guaranteed heavy like every good player would.

[RatedChaotic]

Your list is void because.....Red Nat Warriors. It doesnt matter what hero Red Nat players use.

[Netcode_err_404]

Still you used the cheese-moves 90% of the time when I faced you several times in Dominion.

And why is PK special in that case? Every 500ms Light (Top Light of Warden, LB, Valk, Glad, Orochi etc etc) would be the same in a 1vX scenario because you only have to block the side where your not-locked target is attacking from to block all their attacks. PK is even pretty bad in this since she has no UB to force a reaction on the ganked guy. The only good move is soft-feint into GB in those situations. On every other occasion where, e.g. a Raider Stampede or LB Impale, hits you go for a guaranteed heavy like every good player would.

You still keep to telling me that, but i don't remember having faced you ever. Btw, its not me, its the game, that allows me to be cheesy, but at least i recognize that, and I do not think I'm good in this game, because I know skill doesn't really matter. Its not tekken.

I do poke ppl with my LB out of screen and I recognize that is cheap and broken.

But ubi wants the game like that, i cannot force them to actually fix it. Even if i tried.

OH, lb top light is 600 not 500 and does 17 dmg. Pk 20 and zone should be 24.

Next time you see me, type in chat, if im watching the screen I will reply.

[Charmzzz]

You still keep to telling me that, but i don't remember having faced you ever. Btw, its not me, its the game, that allows me to be cheesy, but at least i recognize that, and I do not think I'm good in this game, because I know skill doesn't really matter. Its not tekken.

I do poke ppl with my LB out of screen and I recognize that is cheap and broken.

But ubi wants the game like that, i cannot force them to actually fix it. Even if i tried.

OH, lb top light is 600 not 500 and does 17 dmg. Pk 20 and zone should be 24.

Next time you see me, type in chat, if im watching the screen I will reply.

But you said, one post earlier, that "And a lot of people here, me included are agianst these free istant pokes out of the screen that can lead to wall splat and free damage every time, its stupid and feels cheap." Pathetic in that context... I even talked to you in those matches and you kept complaining about my Rep 40 PK with yourself being LB, turtling or Impaling 24/7.

Oh and LB Top Light is 500ms and 15 Damage. PK is 500ms and 17 Damage. Much difference, eh? PK Zone is 400ms and 20 Damage, but costs half her stamina and always comes from your right side. So you put your guard there and only react to the others sides - problem solved. Now try to do that to a LB who turtles into Block - Shove - 50-50.

[Devils-_-legacy]

Shut up about red Nat warriors every post lol and how can you say using the poke is trash and a cheesy move then say the game put it there that's why you use it 😂 and because a pk can chain 3 lights in were a lb only gets a poke

[Charmzzz]

Shut up about red Nat warriors every post lol and how can you say using the poke is trash and a cheesy move then say the game put it there that's why you use it �� and because a pk can chain 3 lights in were a lb only gets a poke

PK can only chain 2 Light Attacks - First Light is 500ms @17 Damage, second Light is 400ms @15 Damage. Since alot of people in my MMR can block those attacks - PK becomes pretty hard to play. But LB is good in every MMR because of his guaranteed Shove on Block and Impale into Wall-Splat Uber-Damage. But hey, Mister "Lord-Micidial" knows it better. He constantly fights Red Nat Warriors (I face one in 20 matches...), uses cheese moves but does not like them and he cannot block 500ms attacks, does not even know his main has one too.

[Netcode_err_404]

But you said, one post earlier, that "And a lot of people here, me included are agianst these free istant pokes out of the screen that can lead to wall splat and free damage every time, its stupid and feels cheap." Pathetic in that context... I even talked to you in those matches and you kept complaining about my Rep 40 PK with yourself being LB, turtling or Impaling 24/7.

Oh and LB Top Light is 500ms and 15 Damage. PK is 500ms and 17 Damage. Much difference, eh? PK Zone is 400ms and 20 Damage, but costs half her stamina and always comes from your right side. So you put your guard there and only react to the others sides - problem solved. Now try to do that to a LB who turtles into Block - Shove - 50-50.

How many tournaments LB won ? How many pk won ?


Thats your answer.