High-level combat | Forums

[b1gb4d0rc]

Please, read the whole post before replying, internet. Thanks (and please be respectful).

I just finished a session of For Honor (so sorry if this sounds like a rant). I think that High-level combat is killing the fun of this game, and let me explain why I think that.

(INTRODUCTION)
I am not good playing For Honor, I'm an average player, so yes, I need to "git gud" but I am not sure I am ever going to get better when high-level combats are not about the personal ability of the player to see and react to the opponent attacks, but about finding that one-hit window that allows me to perform my winning combo over and over again until I defeat my opponent.

Two examples:
Kensei - Top unblockable to GB in a fraction of a second. Some of you can argue that Kensei NEVER finishes its top unblockable but that is a 50/50 situation and there is no time to REACT to the change, so it's a guess. So me, as a Kensei, I should only wait for my opponent to throw an easy-to-parry-blow so I can start my combo feint a couple of times and let the unblockable finish the third time to kill the opponent.

Raider Unblockable to top blinding - same thing, there is no way a human can REACT to that.

(SOLUTION)
And the key to solve this is there: the reaction. High-level play should be a dance of hit-defense-hit-counter a lot more dynamic than what it is now. This game should enable the chance for players to react, not just to memorize movements.

To enable this, for example, GB should be to get out of difficult situations but should not guarantee a hit in any case. It should give the chance (to the GBed) to block or parry the next attack, while CGB would give the attack chance to the player with the ability to react and perform a CGB.

Parry SHOULD NOT DEPLETE stamina, lower, probably, deplete, no. This would favor the exchange of blows and would make longer combat transitions.

But the most important change of all: feints should be natural or not at all to allow the player to react to the feint even if it's the first time he sees it. The one-frame changes from lateral unblockable to top light or the top unblockable to GB are not natural and that is frustrating.

See this fight:

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This fight (although choreographed) has all the elements I'm talking about: the fighters EXCHANGE blows, they never GB (only to get away from a disadvantageous situation). The combat transitions are longer. Achiles also feints the final blow, but the movement is natural.

Obviously the combat in For Honor will never be this fast because the actors just memorized the movements but it could get closer than what it is now.

I would love to explain these ideas to a greater extent, if you (devs) feel they might contribute to the game.

Thanks.

b1g

[UbiNoty]

This was a very thoughtful post on skill and approaches to playstyle.
I don't necessarily think what you're referring to is high-level combat necessarily, but a playstyle that focuses on winning - it's part of what is feeding into the excessiveness that became the defensive meta, which is why we're looking to change and address the def meta.
Most good, high level players actually can play like what you envision, a back and forth dance of trading blows - but when your primary goal is winning, then it's much better to turtle and wait for the perfect strike. There's nothing wrong with either style, and both are valid (even in the real world) and take equal amounts of skill, it's just much less fun to play in a meta where the low-risk, high-reward playstyle of turtling is so much more beneficial.

Hopefully the full effect of the def meta changes will come into play soon enough, and you'll be able to see the much more stylish trading of blows between high-level players.

[b1gb4d0rc]

Thank you for your response,

In the end playing defensive should be a valid choice for the game, it is what characters like Warlord, Conqueror and (sort of) Highlander or Shugoki are designed for. And I agree that attacking should not be so much punishable.

I'm looking forward to seeing those changes you guys are implementing.

b1g

[Averageperson10]

it gets worse I'm almost 2.00 KD and the majority of all the fights are so boring and long with endless guard breaks lights and ton of heavy fakes only time you see a heavy being used is when its guaranteed to land