1. #1

    Explain why playing with "honor" shouldn't be a bannable offense.

    Oh, wait you can't.

    Its not a "way to play" Its griefing. Plain and simple, you are watching you teammate die when you are supposed to be helping them. You would have to do some serious mental gymnastics to convince me that playing with honor isn't just griefing but with a different name.
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  2. #2
    Because the devs have said both ways are valid and speaking as someone who doesn't particularly like the honour system, the people flaming them for how they want to play are as bad as the people doing that on the other side of the coin.
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  3. #3
    Antonioj26's Avatar Senior Member
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    This conversation has been discussed a billion times. Just get friends and your problem is solved.
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  4. #4
    Personally, Honor isn't just not ganking an opponent. It's not hitting the opponent in a 1v1 situation like duel, start of elimination etc. while they are emoting at the beginning to show respect. It's not purposely throwing them off a ledge when in all other rounds they could have done this to you but chose to continue attacking rather than a simple round ending push. In my opinion it's just polite honestly. You don't have to not gank, and by all means when getting ganked or in a true team setting like dominion anything goes IMO. But in my eyes it's unfair to punish a player with a whole chain because they wanted to do an emote in the start of the round. Most round starting emotes are to show respect and hitting them starts a toxic salt battle and is just honestly rude. I don't emote at the begging but if people pay that respect it should be at the bare minimum not rubbed in their face, and in most polite circumstances the favor returned. It's one thing to play the game as intended, it's another thing to act rude. A lot of players may disagree with me here, and that's fine, but I think when BASIC Honor like the little things mentioned above is ignored or neglected then it just makes this community even more salty, and even more toxic.
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  5. #5
    Originally Posted by mrmistark Go to original post
    Personally, Honor isn't just not ganking an opponent. It's not hitting the opponent in a 1v1 situation like duel, start of elimination etc. while they are emoting at the beginning to show respect. It's not purposely throwing them off a ledge when in all other rounds they could have done this to you but chose to continue attacking rather than a simple round ending push. In my opinion it's just polite honestly. You don't have to not gank, and by all means when getting ganked or in a true team setting like dominion anything goes IMO. But in my eyes it's unfair to punish a player with a whole chain because they wanted to do an emote in the start of the round. Most round starting emotes are to show respect and hitting them starts a toxic salt battle and is just honestly rude. I don't emote at the begging but if people pay that respect it should be at the bare minimum not rubbed in their face, and in most polite circumstances the favor returned. It's one thing to play the game as intended, it's another thing to act rude. A lot of players may disagree with me here, and that's fine, but I think when BASIC Honor like the little things mentioned above is ignored or neglected then it just makes this community even more salty, and even more toxic.
    Certainly, I agree that people should not be flamed for playing the way they want to play, thing there is that goes both ways. Take the bowing example you brought up,personally I haven't attacked anyone doing that but I don't feel obliged to stand off, I feel that the game gave us chance to do that before calling fight and if it were like the fifth player who had done that or if they were doing it every round I would kind of feel they were wasting my time because I want to get on with it and get to the next fight and honestly the fact that I am locked on and walking towards you is plenty of warning that I am coming.

    Ledging, eh I kind of don't deliberately because often I have been pulled away from ledges after being guard broken but again,I feel that those who rage message people who do are as much a part of the problem.
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  6. #6
    This is an interessting question but the answer is quite simple.
    From a pure logical point of view it is griefing, because you do not use everything to your advantage to win on purpose but it is OK because the community is this way.
    If a community accepts something which is usally unacceptable its suddenly ok.

    It would be the same to not buy proper weapons in Counter Strike when you know the enemy cant afford some either and then call it honourable, but the CS community wont accept this behaviour and report you for trolling.
    Or tax beeing actually the same as theft but its legalised by government and widley accepted so thats ok too.

    So you are right it is trolling but the community wants is this way so its ok.
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  7. #7
    UbiInsulin's Avatar Community Manager
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    Originally Posted by Waynedetta40k Go to original post
    This is an interessting question but the answer is quite simple.
    From a pure logical point of view it is griefing, because you do not use everything to your advantage to win on purpose but it is OK because the community is this way.
    If a community accepts something which is usally unacceptable its suddenly ok.

    It would be the same to not buy proper weapons in Counter Strike when you know the enemy cant afford some either and then call it honourable, but the CS community wont accept this behaviour and report you for trolling.
    Or tax beeing actually the same as theft but its legalised by government and widley accepted so thats ok too.

    So you are right it is trolling but the community wants is this way so its ok.
    This right here is a deep post.

    I think it's in sort of a grey area (my personal preference would be to help out my teammate if they appeared to need help), but bans for this kind of behavior would be very hard to enforce consistently. Ultimately, we want players to be able to express themselves as they see fit. We have practical players and more chivalrous one on these forums, and both play-styles are welcome.

    Honorable players should accept that they might not have honorable opponents/teammates and adapt as best they can, and the same goes for our utilitarian players.
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  8. #8
    Originally Posted by Waynedetta40k Go to original post
    This is an interessting question but the answer is quite simple.
    From a pure logical point of view it is griefing, because you do not use everything to your advantage to win on purpose but it is OK because the community is this way.
    If a community accepts something which is usally unacceptable its suddenly ok.

    It would be the same to not buy proper weapons in Counter Strike when you know the enemy cant afford some either and then call it honourable, but the CS community wont accept this behaviour and report you for trolling.
    Or tax beeing actually the same as theft but its legalised by government and widley accepted so thats ok too.

    So you are right it is trolling but the community wants is this way so its ok.
    The thing is in this lies the problem, not everyone can agree that this is or isn't acceptable and people on both sides of it have decided that the other set of people are doing it wrong, I have seen a lot of these threads and they have been started by people who can't stand the honour system and by those who think that anything not 1v1 is effectively cheating and so they both call out the other side as griefing.

    The problem is there are two game modes that both sets of people have decided only their way should apply, brawl and elimination (I would say dominion as well but really good luck convincing people who don't want to 1v1 that they are to back off). Both sides can cherrypick things to support their argument from the fact the mode says 4v4/2v2 to the fact that it puts you opposite someone and so we see more and more of these threads. Personally if I want a 1v1 I queue up duel and I am not sticking to 1v1 in others under any circumstances, of course I can only control my own actions, so really like Insulin said, people need to accept that people play in different ways.
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  9. #9
    Vakris_One's Avatar Senior Member
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    No, it is not griefing to play differently to someone else. Respect each other's playstyles even if you don't play that way and all will be well. The constant tantrum throwing over this topic is both pointless and unecessary.
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  10. #10
    bmason1000's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by mrmistark Go to original post
    Personally, Honor isn't just not ganking an opponnt. It's not hitting the opponent in a 1v1 situation like duel, start of elimination etc. while they are emoting at the beginning to show respect...
    I feel disrespected by people emoting and punish accordingly. I understand i am an EXTREME minority in this feeling and don't really elect anyone else to share that. Just figured I'd bring it up to say "hey, there's players who feel differently from others." That is why none of it is enforceable as "griefing." We, as a community, simply can not agree on what behaviour is or is not griefing. Its not universal like going out of your way for team kills in an fps. Something the entire video game community/industry agrees upon as griefing. The whole "honor" concept in fh is too muddled. Even members of the honor crowd disagree with eachother on what's acceptable occasionally.
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