"git gud"=/= good for the game | Forums

[gj4063]

I'm relatively new to the game; a couple months. But the changes I've seen pushed down through patches have changed the dynamic of the game.

A lot of it seems to reflect the goal for For Honor to be more of a classic combat game. Eliminating time snap, tweaking reaction time openings, now nerfs to counter turtle meta, all the while ignoring the growing light spam and the CC&uninteruptable spam. New classes are gimmick ridden rather than classic combat balanced.

All of the changes make it more difficult for the lion's share of average gamers and new gamers to gain interest in the game. The growing importance of CC/mezz/stun & stamina/energy drain simply scare people away. I'm not even talking about guaranteed attacks being blocked, or dodge light attacks lending before the graphic is even displayed.

This community here mostly boils down to "git gud" posts mist of the time. Can't block pk lights? Git gud. Can't escape centurion chain? Git gud. gladiator toe spam? Git gud. play vs bots for any hour. Sorry guys, most people picking up this game aren't looking for a twitch combat game. They want to have fun. Cut back on the cc/mezz/stun & stamina drain heavy classes going forward. Put the time snap back in so that people have a chances and the game play is closer to being in sync with the video you're seeing. Killing turtle meta is promoting light spam meta. Make the game noob friendly? Not necessarily, but where you're headed is nor helping things.

[Lyskir]

I'm relatively new to the game; a couple months. But the changes I've seen pushed down through patches have changed the dynamic of the game.

A lot of it seems to reflect the goal for For Honor to be more of a classic combat game. Eliminating time snap, tweaking reaction time openings, now nerfs to counter turtle meta, all the while ignoring the growing light spam and the CC&uninteruptable spam. New classes are gimmick ridden rather than classic combat balanced.

All of the changes make it more difficult for the lion's share of average gamers and new gamers to gain interest in the game. The growing importance of CC/mezz/stun & stamina/energy drain simply scare people away. I'm not even talking about guaranteed attacks being blocked, or dodge light attacks lending before the graphic is even displayed.

This community here mostly boils down to "git gud" posts mist of the time. Can't block pk lights? Git gud. Can't escape centurion chain? Git gud. gladiator toe spam? Git gud. play vs bots for any hour. Sorry guys, most people picking up this game aren't looking for a twitch combat game. They want to have fun. Cut back on the cc/mezz/stun & stamina drain heavy classes going forward. Put the time snap back in so that people have a chances and the game play is closer to being in sync with the video you're seeing. Killing turtle meta is promoting light spam meta. Make the game noob friendly? Not necessarily, but where you're headed is nor helping things.

sad but true

[UbiNoty]

Thanks for bringing this up. Most the changes are made with the spirit of overall improvement towards the health of the game. And if you feel certain elements are alienating new players, we definitely want to hear you out. The learning curve of FH was always a bit steep to begin with, and the timesnap changes, def meta changes, etc, they shouldn't really have impacted the learning curve overly much. If anything, i see it more as players getting better as a whole and raising the standard of play (as opposed to alpha/beta/early release when nobody knew what they were doing), which can be hard on newcomers- so it may be something we'd have to address with the community together.

[PrimaGoosa]

Coming into an established fighting style game is always going to be hard. Matchmaking in this game is always going to be difficult, so you're going to fight people who destroy you.

At some point though it is up to the player to acknowledge they are new and that they are going to hit brick wall players. Games this up close and personal are always going to lean competitive, so new players are going to have to learn what every other hero does, what the meta is, etc.

There isn't anything Ubi can do to help, really. It's just a tough game, and it's going to be a tough game. They didn't intend to nuff light spam with the time snap change, but it happened, so they need to fix it. Until then though, players do need to suck it up and adapt. It is possible to hop into a game, relax, and slam face. It's up to the player though to manage expectations and focus their experience. Maybe they are going to ignore parrying and only block one night to practice. Maybe they are going to feint every heavy to practice the muscle memory. Maybe they are going to try to parry every attack. Maybe they are going to try to only deflect.

People hold themselves to incredible standards right out of the gate, and at some point it isn't the game's fault. I'm not saying git gud always applies, but at what point can we draw the line and say "ok seriously, just at least try to improve"?

[kweassa1]

Coming into an established fighting style game is always going to be hard. Matchmaking in this game is always going to be difficult, so you're going to fight people who destroy you.

At some point though it is up to the player to acknowledge they are new and that they are going to hit brick wall players. Games this up close and personal are always going to lean competitive, so new players are going to have to learn what every other hero does, what the meta is, etc.

There isn't anything Ubi can do to help, really. It's just a tough game, and it's going to be a tough game. They didn't intend to nuff light spam with the time snap change, but it happened, so they need to fix it. Until then though, players do need to suck it up and adapt. It is possible to hop into a game, relax, and slam face. It's up to the player though to manage expectations and focus their experience. Maybe they are going to ignore parrying and only block one night to practice. Maybe they are going to feint every heavy to practice the muscle memory. Maybe they are going to try to parry every attack. Maybe they are going to try to only deflect.

People hold themselves to incredible standards right out of the gate, and at some point it isn't the game's fault. I'm not saying git gud always applies, but at what point can we draw the line and say "ok seriously, just at least try to improve"?

^ ^ ^ This.


It's the truth behind fighting games, or any PvP-centered game for that matter. If your ego can't handle the humiliation and embarrassment of the possibility of meeting someone better than you and simply demolishing you, you shouldn't be playing PvP games in the first place.

PvP in fighting games, is all about accepting the results of such humiliation, and using it as motivation to become better, stronger, more competitive. That's why people are so passionate about it, that's why things get so heated up easily, and that's why it sometimes becomes "toxic" or "salty"... and ultimately, that's why some people are so hooked to this specific genre and love it.


You start dumbing down the game to coddle the scrubs, then that's when the game really, really dies out.

[gj4063]

There's a clear and real difference between accepting a whooping and "wheretf did all my stamina go in one hit??? I'm going back to overwatch" to a lot of players.

@Ubinoty
I think my post directly relates to what you said that you think the changes are an attempt to raise the standard of play. Imho that may be true but it may be more through attrition than educating the larger player base. Only Ubisoft has the statistics to show that, but It justcomes down to what Ubisoft wants.

[kweassa1]

There's a clear and real difference between accepting a whooping and "wheretf did all my stamina go in one hit??? I'm going back to overwatch" to a lot of players.

Unfortunately, nubs usually can't tell that difference at all, so they usually rage on situations brought forth by their own ineptitude and claim it's the game's fault.

[PrimaGoosa]

There's so much more to For Honor than the Centurion's current design. And even that becomes predictable once you get a feel for it. It really is all about mentality. And Ubi is looking at the Centurion.

[gj4063]

Unfortunately, nubs usually can't tell that difference at all, so they usually rage on situations brought forth by their own ineptitude and claim it's the game's fault.

Yes, I understand your point. Your posts usually boil down to 'git gud or git lost.' I have no idea if you understand my point, just don't care, or think I'm wrong. Would you say time snap made the game noob friendly? Would you say the game was noob friendly before cent and glad were in the game? Wouldn't you agree that the meta was a little different before those things happened?

Regardless, it seems Ubisoft agrees with you. If their goal is to "raise the standard of play", then a smaller, more uniform player base is what they will have. It's never going to earn a rep as a hardcore twitch combat game since (1) the game is aging already and twitch players have their preconceptions set, (2) heavy CC/mezz/stun/energy drain classes are not good for pure combat games, (3) it's going to be another year before dedicated servers are in and are stable.

I thought games made more money by gathering and keeping as many players as possible. Maybe that's not the case.

[Aarpian]

I'm relatively new to the game; a couple months. But the changes I've seen pushed down through patches have changed the dynamic of the game.

A lot of it seems to reflect the goal for For Honor to be more of a classic combat game. Eliminating time snap, tweaking reaction time openings, now nerfs to counter turtle meta, all the while ignoring the growing light spam and the CC&uninteruptable spam. New classes are gimmick ridden rather than classic combat balanced.

All of the changes make it more difficult for the lion's share of average gamers and new gamers to gain interest in the game. The growing importance of CC/mezz/stun & stamina/energy drain simply scare people away. I'm not even talking about guaranteed attacks being blocked, or dodge light attacks lending before the graphic is even displayed.

This community here mostly boils down to "git gud" posts mist of the time. Can't block pk lights? Git gud. Can't escape centurion chain? Git gud. gladiator toe spam? Git gud. play vs bots for any hour. Sorry guys, most people picking up this game aren't looking for a twitch combat game. They want to have fun. Cut back on the cc/mezz/stun & stamina drain heavy classes going forward. Put the time snap back in so that people have a chances and the game play is closer to being in sync with the video you're seeing. Killing turtle meta is promoting light spam meta. Make the game noob friendly? Not necessarily, but where you're headed is nor helping things.

The reason people are telling others to "git gud", is because otherwise you start balancing the game around the concerns of people who, if they kept playing, would realise that the issues they're having aren't actually issues at all. If that happens, you end up making lots of changes that negatively impact the majority of the playerbase, INCLUDING the people who were complaining about it in the first place.

There are a lot of things in this game that, superficially, seem horrendously strong, but to experienced players are actually terrible.