More cent talk and reevaluating my tier list. | Forums

[Vakris_One]

I guess it is a personal list, but the majority of the players on that reddit are all fairly competitive players, always discussing how to squeeze a drop of extra damage out of scenarios or exploits and how to get out of them, or maximum punishes for every conceivable scenario etc.. Usually when they all upvote a popular list it tends to be pretty close, in my opinion anyway. I've learnt a lot reading through that sub reddit, and how to spot these exploiters on the PS4 too, and workarounds of how to beat them without stooping to their level.

But yeah, I kinda agree that lawbringer isn't great (but not bottom tier though, I woulda thought mid) and I though warden would be higher too, but maybe things have shifted a bit as of late? Did anyone see any wardens in the last competition? I didn't get to see all the rosters that faced off so I'm not too sure on that...

No Wardens that I could see. Apparrently Bandanaa was a Warden main untill he switched to Centurion pretty much a couple days before the tournament. I love how he and Alernakin were the only two going on unbeaten streaks - one of them picked up Centurion a day or so before the tournament and the other one hadn't played the game for 2 weeks. Comedy gold.

As long as Warden's SB guessing game takes little to no stamina he will always be 'competitive' at top tier or close to it. I mean just look at what he can do to a genuinley top tier skill player who refuses to use exploits:

https://youtu.be/jETgDKRUlgc

[Netcode_err_404]

I guess it is a personal list, but the majority of the players on that reddit are all fairly competitive players, always discussing how to squeeze a drop of extra damage out of scenarios or exploits and how to get out of them, or maximum punishes for every conceivable scenario etc.. Usually when they all upvote a popular list it tends to be pretty close, in my opinion anyway. I've learnt a lot reading through that sub reddit, and how to spot these exploiters on the PS4 too, and workarounds of how to beat them without stooping to their level.

But yeah, I kinda agree that lawbringer isn't great (but not bottom tier though, I woulda thought mid) and I though warden would be higher too, but maybe things have shifted a bit as of late? Did anyone see any wardens in the last competition? I didn't get to see all the rosters that faced off so I'm not too sure on that...

These players may be competitive.

BUT the game is not.





Meaningless list.


Wardens in the same spot of Lb's, and kensei ?


In which planet ?

[Knight_Raime]

Ya most are afraid too....wink. Its why I always stressed this tier stuff to the community. Most dont post a list. They just say this hero is this and we bicker over that one hero for pages....But I think Valk is above Conq personally.lol good list.

why is that?

[Knight_Raime]

I think you got some right, but shinobi is nowhere near top tier. Out of all the heroes you've named, shinobi is one of the only heros that nobody has even made it into the beginning of a tournament with, because his moves are all fairy easy to dodge and also punish. Shinobi would be either beside kensei, or in a tier between the very bottom and the next highest.

Majority of Competitive For Honor reddit ranks him down at the bottom beside kensei. A post came up recently with a competitive player giving a pretty accurate tier list, with the most upvotes. I think he nailed it, I'll link it here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitive...f_a_tier_list/

I firmly believe that Shinobi is only ranked so low because kick got nerfed. So now his one cheesy tactic is gone people think he's bad. Same thing is going to happen once raiders insta stampede is dealt with. Shinobi has one of the best whiff punishes in the game (ranged GB into sickle rain) has superior movement, can punish people who attempt to push too far on him after they've knocked him down, and some decent mix ups. He may not be close to top tier. but he's not struggling anywhere near as much compared to kensei or goki.

I also don't care about skorabrand's opinion. He ranked goki higher than warden. Warden has a far better kit but he ranked goki higher simply due to a better punish. That discredits his opinion in my eyes.

[Knight_Raime]

The term "competitive tier list", in this case, simply means "when we assume its totally OK to simply abuse whatever bugs in game", I'm afraid. IMO performance comparisons should never take in as a factor any kind of bug abuse.

Well. yes. But the players are more than capable of beating people without them. Tier lists in fighting games are almost always based off of everything that a character can do that's considered tournament legal. So in this case unlock tech is legal. There for tier ranking has to consider the unlock tech to be a considered legit tier list. As much as I agree here with you morals have no place in tournaments. If it's allowed then it's allowed. Trying to bash players for using something that is allowed is silly and does nothing for no one. take it out on either the game or the devs for it existing.
Not the players who are simply doing what they showed up to do. win.

[Sneaky-Patches]

I firmly believe that Shinobi is only ranked so low because kick got nerfed. So now his one cheesy tactic is gone people think he's bad. Same thing is going to happen once raiders insta stampede is dealt with. Shinobi has one of the best whiff punishes in the game (ranged GB into sickle rain) has superior movement, can punish people who attempt to push too far on him after they've knocked him down, and some decent mix ups. He may not be close to top tier. but he's not struggling anywhere near as much compared to kensei or goki.

I also don't care about skorabrand's opinion. He ranked goki higher than warden. Warden has a far better kit but he ranked goki higher simply due to a better punish. That discredits his opinion in my eyes.

He's low tier because his kit doesn't amount to much when you face players that know how to punish shinobi. Kick is extremely slow and telegraphed so it's not hard to dodge, and once you dodge it, you can guarantee shinobi will throw out a top heavy which you can then parry for a free top heavy for 50% of his health.

All his mixups revolve around slinging in/out, but are easily blocked or parried.

He may have a decent punish, but you need to get your enemy to just let a heavy attack fly for no good reason, and you have to be ready to charge and throw that GB, if you are off by a split second, then you are eating a top heavy.

Worst Zone Attack in the game. No fast way to punish light attack whiffs like every other assasin who has a dodge attack.

All his ranged stuff becomes to risky and really silly to use against people that are parry masters. Ranged GB again, even at noob level play this is pointless.

Deflects are ok, but become riskier than other assasins due to having such low health. Deflect damage doesn't stack, doesn't refresh, stops stam regen for 5 seconds, takes 13 1/2 seconds to run out before you can try apply bleed again, and is barely better than other assasins, except for zerks wallsplat punish, and glads pin, or orochis heavy.

Has a really bad OOS punish, other heroes can get in 2 heavies, or can spam unblockables to bait easy parries. Also shinobi has that terrible reflex guard, so when enemies feint into light attacks on the same side you basically have no choice but to eat that light attack because your guard just deteoriates. Enemies will come up with strategies to further exploit that too, by getting the timing down to keep breaking into the gap in your guard. Also means you can't keep holding a guard stance ready to preemptively block a fast ZA, you must now do it on reaction.

After this, he hasn't really got anything left. Double lights?

It just comes down to everything in his kit being so punishable, and your always at the mercy of your enemy, always relying on your enemy not parrying you attacks or not dodging your kick, as opposed to creating openings and only attacking when it's safe. Sure, you can dictate the pace of the fight, but that puts you in the role of aggressor as opposed to counter attacker. Has a bunch of moves but almost all fall short.

[ArchDukeInstinct]

Competitive tier list:
Top tier: nobushi>Warlord>PK/centurion>warden.
Upper tier: Conq> Shinobi> Raider.
Mid tier: Orochi> valk> berzerker> Lawbringer.
Low tier: Kensei/goki

I love how a class that's barely used outside of tournaments, let alone in tournaments is considered top tier. Pretty much the only place you're going to see conquerors is in dominion and other 4v4 modes and the vast majority of those are just bots. You can play duel for weeks on end and be lucky to even find one conqueror. It's crazy, like OMG he's got superior block, I can't just let random heavies fly, something I wouldn't do against any other class either, what am I do to now?

[Knight_Raime]

He's low tier because his kit doesn't amount to much when you face players that know how to punish shinobi. Kick is extremely slow and telegraphed so it's not hard to dodge, and once you dodge it, you can guarantee shinobi will throw out a top heavy which you can then parry for a free top heavy for 50% of his health.

All his mixups revolve around slinging in/out, but are easily blocked or parried.

He may have a decent punish, but you need to get your enemy to just let a heavy attack fly for no good reason, and you have to be ready to charge and throw that GB, if you are off by a split second, then you are eating a top heavy.

Worst Zone Attack in the game. No fast way to punish light attack whiffs like every other assasin who has a dodge attack.

All his ranged stuff becomes to risky and really silly to use against people that are parry masters. Ranged GB again, even at noob level play this is pointless.

Deflects are ok, but become riskier than other assasins due to having such low health. Deflect damage doesn't stack, doesn't refresh, stops stam regen for 5 seconds, takes 13 1/2 seconds to run out before you can try apply bleed again, and is barely better than other assasins, except for zerks wallsplat punish, and glads pin, or orochis heavy.

Has a really bad OOS punish, other heroes can get in 2 heavies, or can spam unblockables to bait easy parries. Also shinobi has that terrible reflex guard, so when enemies feint into light attacks on the same side you basically have no choice but to eat that light attack because your guard just deteoriates. Enemies will come up with strategies to further exploit that too, by getting the timing down to keep breaking into the gap in your guard. Also means you can't keep holding a guard stance ready to preemptively block a fast ZA, you must now do it on reaction.

After this, he hasn't really got anything left. Double lights?

It just comes down to everything in his kit being so punishable, and your always at the mercy of your enemy, always relying on your enemy not parrying you attacks or not dodging your kick, as opposed to creating openings and only attacking when it's safe. Sure, you can dictate the pace of the fight, but that puts you in the role of aggressor as opposed to counter attacker. Has a bunch of moves but almost all fall short.

I use kick to whiff punish or dodge an attack on reaction. Seems to work well. at least in my skill bracket.
I mean the fact that he can whiff attacks and still flip in my mind creates mind games.
Yeah the whiff punish is difficult to master. Doesn't devalue it though.
Yeah I agree the zone is bad. I've wanted his and cents to be cancelable like all other multi hit zones since they dropped.
If at max range his ranged attacks are basically unpunishable for most of the cast. those that can make it in time for an attack risk shinobi retaliating during their punish.
Deflect into kick is amazing simply because it guarantee's a ranged heavy.
yeah his OOS isn't crazy.

I still stand by my original point. Maybe if he had more health people would consider him better. But I still think he's a lot better than most give credit for. Just feels bad that 1-2 mistakes kills you. Either way he's still better than goki and kensei.

[Knight_Raime]

I love how a class that's barely used outside of tournaments, let alone in tournaments is considered top tier. Pretty much the only place you're going to see conquerors is in dominion and other 4v4 modes and the vast majority of those are just bots. You can play duel for weeks on end and be lucky to even find one conqueror. It's crazy, like OMG he's got superior block, I can't just let random heavies fly, something I wouldn't do against any other class either, what am I do to now?

For the first part are you referring to bushi? If so it's entirely due to what she can do unlock tech wise. It also helps she can cancel her dash attacks to have zero recovery.
As for conq I've happened to come across some very good conq's that don't just sit and turtle. they aggressively dash into your attacks and do a lot of full block feinting.
Not saying conq by any stretch is super powerful. I believe conq sits where he sits in the competitive list because it's simply very hard to actually punish/open a conq if the conq knows what they are doing. that combined with the frankly insane tech that conq can do with making indicators flicker every where.

Conq is just under played because he's boring. At least in my opinion.

[Trbevis]

Shinobi god tier hahhaha what a joke, even if you have a problem with shinobi you can make plenty of mistakes and still be alive, wheras if shinobi makes one or two mistakes shes basically dead, its no wonder you hardly ever see them in games anymore, its not worth it, one parry or counter guardbreak, free heavy. Yes thats fair, but thats fine with me, if she was made better she could become high up tier, so leave her be, and kensei isnt low tier, i mean i know everyone cries about him being awful, yet the true people who play as kensei can very often destroy people, so not top tier but definitely not bottom tier, just my two cents anyway, nice one for attempting a list