Warden and Conqueror Tweaks | Forums

[Daric_Leland]

After reaching Rep 30 with Warden, I moved on to Conqueror and experienced what I keep hearing about the hero. Conqueror's damage output is low, excluding a charged heavy that is difficult to land while leaving the Conqueror vulnerable. His attacks are slow, requiring dependence upon the Shield Bash and its variants to open up the opponent for a single light. Though, these are problems I am sure all have heard before. With experience finally under my belt, I have been brewing on tweaks to Conqueror to make his current kit more viable.

• Conscript's Attrition increases in speed with each consecutive strike so long as guard stance is changed for each hit, 600ms for the initial swing, 500ms for the second and 400ms for the third and all subsequent swings.
  
  Spoiler:  Show

  The followup light is consistently parried at high level; changing the timing with each swing makes it harder to parry. Requiring guard stance change keeps with the offensive theme of maintaining the flail's momentum. The chain can be interrupted by block, so it will still be difficult to maintain.
• Fully charged heavy swings are unblockable.
  
  Spoiler:  Show

  Heavies have to be charged at a distance or else risk a guard break. This makes them easy to react to. Fortunately, each charge level increases the speed of the swing, so it becomes harder to respond to. However, one need simply block the charged heavy to nullify its potency, which requires less skill than parrying it. Making the attack unblockable forces the opponent to parry or dodge, increasing the likelihood of landing.
• After a Shield Bash Mixup is successfully landed, the followup heavy swing is guaranteed.
  
  Spoiler:  Show

  At present, the followup heavy can be blocked by the victim after getting hit by the Shield Bash Mixup. The Shield Bash itself is also dodgeable, meaning the Conqueror may get nothing for the "combo."
• Decrease the recovery time after a successful Charging Shield Crush.
  
  Spoiler:  Show

  If the Conqueror follows a Charging Shield Crush with the heavy swing intended to follow it, the victim gets a free guardbreak on the Conqueror. The victim recovers before the Conqueror can from his heavy swing presently.

With the start of Season 3 and the increase of the Reputation cap to 40, I have returned to Warden. While no changes have been made to the Warden's kit since I switched, I have come to see past nerfs make one of the Warden's riskier moves almost useless. The past changes to the Warden consisted of reducing the window to cancel or confirm a Shoulder Bash. The current small window leaves the Warden immobile and vulnerable if he chooses to charge the Shoulder Bash as opposed to release, cancel or confirm into a guard break. The Warden has a second or two before the super armor activates after they lose the option to cancel or confirm. The use of the charged Shoulder Bash is to punish an early dodge or a late attack, the delay giving it improved tracking and the super armor immunity to stagger.

• Decrease the time super armor takes to activate on the Warden's Shoudler Bash so it matches with the time he can no longer cancel.
  
  Spoiler:  Show

  This was the case after the first adjustment, but was not changed for the second. It left the Warden without an indicator for the point of commitment. Also reference the paragraph above.
• Reduce the time it takes to fully charge the Shoudler Bash by 200ms and increase the tracking.
  
  Spoiler:  Show

  This is to make the window for reacting smaller, so the opponent does not get a second chance to dodge, reinforcing the guessing game Shoulder Bash has become. The tracking increase serves to ensure reliability as I have experienced it sliding off opponents recently.

The charge time adjustment is not a number I can state with confidence, but have chosen to illustrate how minor of a reduction I am suggesting. A vague "reduce the time it takes to fully charge the Shoudler Bash" could imply a reduction of one second, which would make the move overpowered.

These are the tweaks I believe Warden and Conqueror should receive to make part of their kits more viable.

[GloriousQuint]

For what matters the Warden,I would actually suggest to increase his number of possible attacks,while keeping the SB as it is.

You see,the Warden can be divided in two parts: the Shoulder Bash and everything else.
Before the nerf,it was all about the Shoulder Bash,and the Warden didn't need more intricate attacks (such as: actual side lights,unblockables,hypershield,more complex combos,etc) ,as it would have been overkill.

I can definitely see why they nerfed his core move,but this led to having a menomated class,since the lack of alternatives to the SB that was not a problem in the beginning showed up. If the Shoulder Bash is so easily counterable,all the Warden is left with are a prevedible top light and an extremily risky zone attack.

My point is: If you give the Warden more attack possibilities,such as those I listed a few lines above,the class will again be complete,and all this Shoulder Bash issue will be resolved,making the SB something that you add to your fight,and not something that you have to base on,seeing the risk it involves.

[RoosterIlluzion]

After reaching Rep 30 with Warden, I moved on to Conqueror and experienced what I keep hearing about the hero. Conqueror's damage output is low, excluding a charged heavy that is difficult to land while leaving the Conqueror vulnerable. His attacks are slow, requiring dependence upon the Shield Bash and its variants to open up the opponent for a single light. Though, these are problems I am sure all have heard before. With experience finally under my belt, I have been brewing on tweaks to Conqueror to make his current kit more viable.

• Conscript's Attrition increases in speed with each consecutive strike so long as guard stance is changed for each hit, 600ms for the initial swing, 500ms for the second and 400ms for the third and all subsequent swings.
  
  Spoiler:  Show

  The followup light is consistently parried at high level; changing the timing with each swing makes it harder to parry. Requiring guard stance change keeps with the offensive theme of maintaining the flail's momentum. The chain can be interrupted by block, so it will still be difficult to maintain.
• Fully charged heavy swings are unblockable.
  
  Spoiler:  Show

  Heavies have to be charged at a distance or else risk a guard break. This makes them easy to react to. Fortunately, each charge level increases the speed of the swing, so it becomes harder to respond to. However, one need simply block the charged heavy to nullify its potency, which requires less skill than parrying it. Making the attack unblockable forces the opponent to parry or dodge, increasing the likelihood of landing.
• After a Shield Bash Mixup is successfully landed, the followup heavy swing is guaranteed.
  
  Spoiler:  Show

  At present, the followup heavy can be blocked by the victim after getting hit by the Shield Bash Mixup. The Shield Bash itself is also dodgeable, meaning the Conqueror may get nothing for the "combo."
• Decrease the recovery time after a successful Charging Shield Crush.
  
  Spoiler:  Show

  If the Conqueror follows a Charging Shield Crush with the heavy swing intended to follow it, the victim gets a free guardbreak on the Conqueror. The victim recovers before the Conqueror can from his heavy swing presently.

With the start of Season 3 and the increase of the Reputation cap to 40, I have returned to Warden. While no changes have been made to the Warden's kit since I switched, I have come to see past nerfs make one of the Warden's riskier moves almost useless. The past changes to the Warden consisted of reducing the window to cancel or confirm a Shoulder Bash. The current small window leaves the Warden immobile and vulnerable if he chooses to charge the Shoulder Bash as opposed to release, cancel or confirm into a guard break. The Warden has a second or two before the super armor activates after they lose the option to cancel or confirm. The use of the charged Shoulder Bash is to punish an early dodge or a late attack, the delay giving it improved tracking and the super armor immunity to stagger.

• Decrease the time super armor takes to activate on the Warden's Shoudler Bash so it matches with the time he can no longer cancel.
  
  Spoiler:  Show

  This was the case after the first adjustment, but was not changed for the second. It left the Warden without an indicator for the point of commitment. Also reference the paragraph above.
• Reduce the time it takes to fully charge the Shoudler Bash by 200ms and increase the tracking.
  
  Spoiler:  Show

  This is to make the window for reacting smaller, so the opponent does not get a second chance to dodge, reinforcing the guessing game Shoulder Bash has become. The tracking increase serves to ensure reliability as I have experienced it sliding off opponents recently.

The charge time adjustment is not a number I can state with confidence, but have chosen to illustrate how minor of a reduction I am suggesting. A vague "reduce the time it takes to fully charge the Shoudler Bash" could imply a reduction of one second, which would make the move overpowered.

These are the tweaks I believe Warden and Conqueror should receive to make part of their kits more viable.

I concur. 100%. But I feel like the Warden's real weakness is his short, short GB. It's pathetic, and I have video of other heroes doing a 180* turn and GB from 3x their normal GB distance. Warden can only increase his GB distance by dashing first, and this often leads to a shoulder bash if it's not timed perfectly.