Junior Member
After playing him for a few hours, most of which was wrought with frustration and disappointment, i finally started to get a handle on him. Still tough to play. I think once i learned you can chain the UB heavies in OS that made a difference. The other big thing is i had to isolate my mentality depending on the form i was in. Since we are all familiar with with playing a simultaneous offensive/defensive game, i had to only concentrate on defense/evasion when in DS in order to get the distance between me and the enemy. And just worry about putting them on the ground and following up with his when in OS. Once there was distance between us that gave me time to switch into OS or use Celtic Curse to initiate. If i went into OS positioning of the enemy so i could effectively kick - UB -UB-UB, or kick - caber toss -UB-UB-UB. Once the kick got off the follow up moves were devastating and usually dropped their health damn near by 3/4. The key i realized is that up close highlander is a sitting duck due to the long charge up of his offensive stance and slow swings. with a little bit of distance, not too much though, he was much more effective at getting in his disables and following up with the damage
Junior Member
Junior Member
Originally Posted by Jasado Go to original post
Couldnt agree more ma dude. He's ok in a gankfest (but who isnt) but against high level players...openers dont connect and i cant flow into OS without getting interrupted, Hes a timing character and that wont work in this game.
Member
Member
I managed to get the Highlander very close to rep 1 yesterday. I used him across all game modes and I must say, DAMN is he fun to use! I feel like he is off to a decent start and definitely has a higher fun factor to play as. The kits between him and Gladiator feel like what we should have gotten in all heros from the start which is a lot of options but I digress.
Here's what I found.
4v4 modes
Highlander can excel in 4v4 modes because of his UB chains and ability to deal decent damage and interrupt people with kicks and throws and his range is solid. However, him being double teamed by two assassins is extremely difficult to stay alive because 1. his guard changed speed is fairly slow 2. his light attacks are like a standard hero's heavys and are easily dodged or parried. 3 his heavy's feel even slower than shugoki 4. parry's against multiple opponents doesnt yield any rewards really other than a bit of distancing. 5. his zone attack for getting ganked is HILARIOUS, it goes in whatever direction he feels like swinging but i do like that it can be canceled after the first and second swing. 6. health pool seems pretty low 7. he's just not fast enough to defend and reapply pressure back. 8. Stamina pool feels a bit low too, parry into Offensive stance to UB chain and stamina is gone after two swings and if one of them is parried you are OOS.
Duel/ Brawl modes
Highlanders performance in these modes definitely depends on your skill/ knowledge with him. His mix ups are pretty dope but after an opponent fights you a few times they can easily dodge his kicks, grabs, and nearly any attack except the dashing heavy mix up usually catches a lot of people off guard. You almost have to revert to turteling utilizing his crushing counters (Which are ****ing awesome!) while throwing in mix ups to bait out attacks. In these modes he feels like a drag to play especially against anyone who can spam light attacks and have crazy range in their guard breaks (PK, Warden, and kensei to name some). You dont get much in terms of a parry punish unless you're near a wall and all you really get is a light off a wall hit or a throw into the UB mix up if you're lucky. It feels as though he has no parry game and using GB's with him is also useless because of his attack speed. You'll GB someone, throw out a light that takes a millennia to come out, get it blocked and then get GB'd yourself or get parried/ deflected. It's sad but the easiest wins for me was capitalizing off of the crushing counters and UB mix ups, essentially playing turtle which is sad.
Overall
I feel his lights need to be sped up a bit more ( I know the Claymore is MASSIVE and you still feel that weight in him but damn son!)
The UB Top Heavy should do serious damage like zerkers because the sheer fact it does less damage than defensive stance Heavy is just silly. It's an UB being thrown down unto his enemies with the rage and power of the celtic gods! We should feel and see that damage.
The active state for the UI( uninterruptible stance) Stance needs to happen sooner. I cant count how many times I would try to trade with the UI Heavys and still get interrupted because my attacker is faster and the hyper armor didnt activate on time. He should not be a character built on timing for trades when he's so slow.
His health pool seems too low to be trading hits with characters. Especially those who also have hyper armor like a Zerker or TurtleLord I mean Warlord. A real good Zerker can put some pain on you when trying to trade.
Zone attack needs to be more controllable and needs something like hyper armor or added stagger on hit/ block, in its current state it doesnt always go the direction you want it to and it is extremely easy to counter.
Offensive stance lights needs some work. The range is too short.
He needs some parry options and a more usable guard break with some range, a light attack off of a parry at least considering his speed. Overall though I gotta give it to you guys this time, you made some extremely intriguing characters that don't seem like cancer this time and have been a blast to play as and fight against.. I hope i got my points off clearly, runing onf three hours of sleep here.
Member
I really love the design and his intended purpose, but he is too flawed. I've almost gotten him to rep 2 and these are a few of my points.
1. He is TOO SLOW, it's quite easy to make kills with him against average players, but against ones that have learned to play against him? Too difficult. Every attack he throws, including lights, can be guard broken. I've seen assassins stick to my *** waiting for me to heavy to gb, or to switch to my offensive stance so they can barrage.
2. His super armor triggers too late, his Celtics attacks can be interrupted.
3. Against a decent Lawbringer, Conq of Warlord, he is too crippled. Lawbringer just needs to block once and he interrupts your entire combo, and sticks to you. He is too heavy to dodge pushes, headbutts and shield bashes. It's not impossible, but success rate is at about 10% due to his ridiculous recovery times.
4. Stamina cost. Stamina cost. Stamina cost. His offensive stance is necessary to open up defensive players, who do nothing but wait, but what's the point in using it if after 2-3 lights your stamina is gone? And the damage? Barely 1.5 bars
5. Guard break. His guard break does nothing for him. Not even a light attack connects sometimes, and that's even if you get a guard break. Parries do absolutely nothing for a HL, it makes no sense. I see T-rex arms HL memes coming up.
6*. If I swing that giant sword 3 times I'll only take out 3 minions, and if an Orochi zones he wipes out half a minion army. What's up with that?
Overall, I love the design, the character, the moves and look, but as it stands once people get to know how he works, he'll be useless. Please give him the necessary buffs, and please do not make us wait 4 months for it.
Senior Member
Well I must say the Highlandsr is a bit underwhelming to fight against. He is the easiest character to parry that I have met - his attacks are incredibly slow and telegraphed. This poor chap probably wouldn't even find respite in Realistic mode.
He cannot get any kind of heavy from a grab, which makes him the only character in the game to not get a free heavy from a grab and he doesn't have anything that makes up for this handicap. The poor guy swings twice and half his stamina is gone. I actually let him land the first swing (or dodge it if it is the offensive stance unblockable) and parry the second for maximum stamina depletion and he's into OOS in 2-3 moves tops.
His only real way of dealing damage is to turtle up and fish for punishes but he gets next to nothing from a parry. His only real use is in a 4v4 gank squad where he can swing his unblockables with relative immunity. And his health pool is far too small to trade hits with anything but a squishy assassin.
I feel as if his catchphrase should be, "Buff Ma Class". He needs either a damage boost to his hits or a Shugoki-esque health pool. I feel that Highlander is meant to be a glass cannon rather than a tank but then he should be doing way more damage on any hits he can score.
Junior Member
Not sure this has been mentioned but AWESOME JOB WITH DETAIL!!! The character looks awesome!!!
For sure need improvements on speed and counter guard break. 1v1 this character is terrible but playing dominion is awesome. Not sure on skirmish due to no one playing that anymore.
Senior Member
As with my other feedback in the other sticky thread keep in mind most of my time is against my sparring partner and against high level bots. I will create a seperate thread holding my complete thoughts with both heros once I get them up through rep one and a little past that.
So here is the deal. Highlander plays differently compared to everyone else in the cast. For the most part for honor is a reactionary game. There are a few things you need to guess or read for certain match ups or mix ups. But for the most part you see something and react accordingly. Highlander is different. You have little reactionary tools. Instead you have to READ your opponent right. this means you need to know your opponent is going to say...dodge attack. before he does it in order to properly deal with it.
Highlanders problems withholding I believe this is the main reason why so many people are struggling to get anything done with him. Also unlike the gladiator I don't believe he's really designed for 1v1. But that's just me.
With that said and done though I would say as the game currently as is he doesn't fit well. This is because of how awkward his parry punishes are in relation to the rest of the cast. And how much he has to give out (health/stamina) wise in order to get comparable results for damage/pressure. So what should we do as a quick fix?
Well guard break needs to be sorted for him. either he gets it off of most parries. Or he gets it off of none. It being inconsistent as is (regardless of how I feel on the reward VS parries) isn't acceptable and should be addressed asap.
From there we need to decide what his primary method of getting in should be. Trading. Or mix ups. If trading he needs a much bigger health pool. close to warlord. But not at warlord. If he's going to be mainly about mix ups his stamina pool either needs an increase or his moves need to cost less stamina. or perhaps a small mix of both.
Once the defensive meta changes drop in (OOS and parry and gb changes) we can revisit him with every other character and see if these quick fixes should stay (aside from the GB fix ofc) or if they should be reverted. I'm only suggesting these quick fixes as I 100% believe those changes will not drop till season 4. that's months away. it would be unacceptable to leave him as is for that long.
Senior Member
I'm not too sure of brushing him off as "underwhelming" at all. The only reason people might think this way is because in comparison, the Gladiator's is relative much more "cheap" and "easymode". Of course, I wouldn't say the HL is a very strong or OP class, but so far the potential I see in it is a solid, well-balanced mid to upper-mid tier -- but only when used to max potential. It's the type that rewards sophisticated mind-games and a very sturdy, "to-the-basics" management. As many people have mentioned, you really need to get the hang of the use of OS and DS with the HL.
One of the biggest misconceptions people have commented, IMO, is when they say "HL is too easy to block, counter, or parry".
This is basically what happens when someone tries to go all offensive with DF-based skills. -- clearly, DF mode skills are literally for "defensive" use. So swinging big, telegraphed heavies or lights that have innate counterattack motion attached in front of the actual swinging clearly doesn't cut it too well.
I mention this again, but the basic mentality of the HL, IMO, is that he's a Lawbringer + Kensei. When in defense, you need to be patient like a Lawbringer. After successful defense or counters, and gaining the initiative, it's at that moment you need to switch into Kensei mode by going into OF and that's when you're really prepped to use attacks. So, of course it's easy to block, parry, counter HL when he swings his DF based skills -- that's no different from a Lawbringer just swinging his heavies and lights in straight-up combos without setting the opponent up other skills or mind-games.
Another misconception I find is that because guaranteed attacks from parry are weak, that people think even being defensive doesn't pay off/
But frankly speaking, IMO, the HL really doesn't need parries at all -- his DF lights are his parries. The most recent version of FHDV lists the DF supblock light attack damage as 30 -- which, if it is true, it's certainly not spectacularly high, but it's not too low either -- it's about an average side heavy damage with other classes.
So instead of parrying heavies -- GB -- and then do damage, with the HL you simply cut out the GB part and directly counter it with damage, and at the same time go into OF... from where you go into mix-ups. Against light attacks, you can certainly try to to use your lights against those as well, but if it proves to be too difficult, a conventional light parry into a guaranteed OF heavy is also not too shabby.
IMO once people get the hang of this class, and then set out to develop their variety of combat patterns associated with OF mode feints and cancels, things will look a lot different.
