Season 3 - Highlander Feedback | Forums

[Alustar.exe]

Which is why I'm guessing whatever makes this happen or not happen, is probably on the HL's front end.

I see I get parried more frequently with consecutive OS heavies. I think this is probably an important thing to note as the first in the chain has the transition tobstance before execution, maybe that is causing some of the inconsistencies?

[nufrancis]

Rep 2 HL here, overall rep 39.

My Thought so far that he is one of the weakest hero in FH. On par with Kensei and Goki.

Vs Low to Middle skilled players still viable, but not with high skilled players.

His problems are:
1.No good punish. Im not discussing the details because I believe you all know his punish option

2.Very slow attack. Very easy to dodge and parry. His UB is very2 dodgeable. Even after feint his attack still very slow. I mean heavy feint to light.. Only the OF light is fast and this attack pretty much useless.

3.HL even worse than Kensei in mind game. Please give Celtic mix up option to hard feint (cancelling attack). Before and after spin if possible.

Tips for Noobs: If you scared or confused how to counter his Celtic mix up just dodge it. Better than try to parry it. Yeah Celtic mix up is fast and the 2nd part of the chain even faster but its very easy to dodge if you know the timing. Dodge when he start spinning, not when he lift up the sword, also dont forget to dodge the 2nd attack. After that free GB.


He is very cool hero, fun to use, but he is in a very sorry state now.

[Knight_Raime]

Which is why I'm guessing whatever makes this happen or not happen, is probably on the HL's front end.

As in you believe something is wrong with highlander and not time snap like i think?
Because I tried several different release times on the OF heavy from all directions after landing a kick or toss.

[Knight_Raime]

Rep 2 HL here, overall rep 39.

My Thought so far that he is one of the weakest hero in FH. On par with Kensei and Goki.

Vs Low to Middle skilled players still viable, but not with high skilled players.

His problems are:
1.No good punish. Im not discussing the details because I believe you all know his punish option

2.Very slow attack. Very easy to dodge and parry. His UB is very2 dodgeable. Even after feint his attack still very slow. I mean heavy feint to light.. Only the OF light is fast and this attack pretty much useless.

3.HL even worse than Kensei in mind game. Please give Celtic mix up option to hard feint (cancelling attack). Before and after spin if possible.

Tips for Noobs: If you scared or confused how to counter his Celtic mix up just dodge it. Better than try to parry it. Yeah Celtic mix up is fast and the 2nd part of the chain even faster but its very easy to dodge if you know the timing. Dodge when he start spinning, not when he lift up the sword, also dont forget to dodge the 2nd attack. After that free GB.


He is very cool hero, fun to use, but he is in a very sorry state now.

He is no where near as bad as kensei or goki.

1) no good punish? What to you is a punish? parrying? I would agree that compared to certain hero's who have insane damage on a punish sure. But I wouldn't mark those as standard for comparison.

2) most of what can be dodged can be feinted into something else.

3) No. Because kensei mix ups always go into top attack for helm splitter. since all of HL's mix up options are good he's not factually worse than kensei in mix up game.

Dodging only works if you know it's coming. The celtic curse mix up tracks people who dodge at the wrong time. and because it can be delayed that makes it difficult to judge when to dodge.
is it possible to read? yes. But it's not easy to react consistently to it. The safest option everytime is to stand and block. Not dodge.

he's very far from being in a sorry state. it's more that he plays vastly different. and exists in a meta that isn't kind to him. Design wise he's nearly perfect. I don't think he should be buffed to the moon just so they can change him a few months again down the line when the defensive meta patches are fully out.

[kweassa1]

As in you believe something is wrong with highlander and not time snap like i think?
Because I tried several different release times on the OF heavy from all directions after landing a kick or toss.

As of current the only reason I can think of is a very "occam's razor"-ish one... that simply, the instances where the UB heavy was parried, was simply because it was late.

IMO the window of opportunity is probably very tight, and as long as the activation of the UBhvy is prompt it would always land, but for whatever reason the activation be maybe couple hundred milliseconds late, it gets parried on the earliest recovery time possible -- as in assassins.


Otherwise, there might be circumstances where targets hit by CCs recover faster than they normallty should -- which might be some sort of yet undiscovered glitch.

[kweassa1]

He is no where near as bad as kensei or goki.

1) no good punish? What to you is a punish? parrying? I would agree that compared to certain hero's who have insane damage on a punish sure. But I wouldn't mark those as standard for comparison.

2) most of what can be dodged can be feinted into something else.

3) No. Because kensei mix ups always go into top attack for helm splitter. since all of HL's mix up options are good he's not factually worse than kensei in mix up game.

Dodging only works if you know it's coming. The celtic curse mix up tracks people who dodge at the wrong time. and because it can be delayed that makes it difficult to judge when to dodge.
is it possible to read? yes. But it's not easy to react consistently to it. The safest option everytime is to stand and block. Not dodge.

he's very far from being in a sorry state. it's more that he plays vastly different. and exists in a meta that isn't kind to him. Design wise he's nearly perfect. I don't think he should be buffed to the moon just so they can change him a few months again down the line when the defensive meta patches are fully out.

I agree. The pure number of different options the HL has in varying situations is enough to make him much better than the Kensei, or the Shugoki.

But undoubtedly his "limitations" would be that design-wise, he is almost totally devoid of "strong guaranteed attacks" -- even if we rule out the bug/glitch associated with parry-GB. At this moment I can only assume that this is intentional, and it was a conscious design choice on the part of the devs to distance itself from conventional designs that relied so much on "linear and mecanical" "guaranteed combo situations".

This is why I rate the Highlander as a "very notable and creative design choice" on the part of the devs, regardless of how strong or weak he is.

[Knight_Raime]

As of current the only reason I can think of is a very "occam's razor"-ish one... that simply, the instances where the UB heavy was parried, was simply because it was late.

IMO the window of opportunity is probably very tight, and as long as the activation of the UBhvy is prompt it would always land, but for whatever reason the activation be maybe couple hundred milliseconds late, it gets parried on the earliest recovery time possible -- as in assassins.


Otherwise, there might be circumstances where targets hit by CCs recover faster than they normallty should -- which might be some sort of yet undiscovered glitch.

I don't see why you would believe that either I or my sparring partner is not doing the timing right. I've done what I believe is the proper timing that being letting go of the heavy button the moment my kick connects or the moment the camera starts pulling back from me tossing them to the ground. The attack is already buffered to be let out. So it's coming out as soon as possible.

If it turns out I have to be not buffering the attack in order to land it guaranteed then that should be treated as a bug and fixed.
In my opinion time snap being gone makes more sense because the indicator is clearly giving me the window in which I should be attempting the parry. And my heavy even goes off some what. But it doesn't parry it.

It just seems more like an indicator problem than a user error problem. Which points to time snap.
unless you know when I should be throwing it out. then please tell me. Because i've been bothered ever sense I found this. and I just can't let it go.

[kweassa1]

I guess its more of a general distrust towards any explanation that involves 'time snap', since way too many people have been uttering that as if its some sort of an omnipresent boogieman behind whatever oddities they see in the game. So I'd rather find a more direct and simpler explanation.

I'm not saying it's not time snap. It could very well be. I'm just not too comfortable with the amount of knowledge the community has on just how timesnap affects the game.

[Knight_Raime]

I guess its more of a general distrust towards any explanation that involves 'time snap', since way too many people have been uttering that as if its some sort of an omnipresent boogieman behind whatever oddities they see in the game. So I'd rather find a more direct and simpler explanation.

I'm not saying it's not time snap. It could very well be. I'm just not too comfortable with the amount of knowledge the community has on just how timesnap affects the game.

Understandable. No idea when this will reach you but I just spent over an hour against a level 3 highlander with no damage, 10 min rounds, and 99 rounds. You were half right. It was timing. Not on the highlanders end though. Mine. The parry timing is stupidly STUPIDLY hard. I was playing as orochi.

On caber toss if he is attempting to do an unblockable heavy from either side I have to initiate my button press for parrying at the very end of my recover animation. Which looks like i'm almost back on my feet again. However if he goes to do an unblockable top heavy the timing is waaaaay different. I have to initiate my button press for parrying when i'm either half way or a little over half way through my handstand flip recovery animation.
I literally could not find the timing for parrying off of his kick. I was only ever able to parry a top heavy from kick once and that was when my friend was playing as highlander during our tests.
Couldn't do it with the bot nor the side heavies from kick.

Essentially my tip for parrying off of being tossed is to pay attention to your recovery animation and not the indicators or highlanders animations. You're parrying late ish almost on reaction with side heavies off of caber toss. But with top heavy you're parrying early. From what I can tell from looking at frame by frame on both caber toss and the kick it seems to be the same for kick. In that you wana parry at the end on the side heavies but early on the top heavy. However I personally was never able to parry it.

If i'm being honest I don't think it's possible to do so even though there is a parry indicator. Though the fact that I was able to parry the top heavy from kick once is making everything screaming at me think otherwise. But again that could have been to wrong timing on my sparring partner. All I know is even after all this testing and frame by frame analizing I don't feel satisfied or like i've accomplished anything.

All I can really say is that it feels more consistent to parry off of cabers toss than it is from kick. I was and have been able to parry after being crushing countered and that timing drove me nuts. But this is even more hair pulling for me. I guess just always go for top heavy. Plus side though I learned how to parry celtic curse cancel almost consistently. Which means that won't be safe for people for much longer.

No idea if time snap has any effect on this since he was dropped post removal. So I guess for now i'll just stop thinking it's responsible till the devs fix the indicators.

[Franleonhart]

exactly my thoughts its a good for nothing here atm, i didnt think it was possible for ubisoft to release such a weak hero, that is new for ubisoft.