1. #1
    Zoro's Avatar Community Representative
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    R6 Community Discusses : Secondary Gadgets

    Hello and welcome back to the R6 Community Discusses Series!

    The goal of this series is to open conversation on specific topics so players can share their feedback, suggestions, and share tips&strategies with their fellow players. We encourage newer players to ask questions and for our more experienced users to offer whatever advice they can on the subject. Any posts that detract from the discussion, target other users specifically, or are offensive in general will be removed.

    This week we will be discussing Secondary Gadgets - these are the additional equipment that each operator has in their arsenal on both Attack and Defense.


    Every operator has different optional secondary gadgets that they can choose for their loadout.

    These include:
    Attack:
    Claymores
    Frag Grenades
    Stun Grenades
    Smoke Grenades
    Breaching Charges

    Defense:
    Nitro Cells / C4
    Deployable Shields
    Barbed Wire
    Impact Grenades

    Each of these gadgets can have varied uses depending on the Operator using them, game modes, objective locations, etc.


    What I'd like to see for this discussion is opinions on any/all of these tools and how you choose to use them in your games. Is there a gadget that you think is overpowered/underwhelming? Are you one of those players who chooses a Nitro Cell over the 3 sets of barbed wire while playing as Bandit? Do you have an epic peeking spot setup using a deployable shield? Do you prefer to pre-place C4 or use them like a grenade? Just a few ideas to get the ball rolling.

    I'm not giving specific prompts on this one because I'd rather let the discussion flow openly this week so you guys can share your thoughts on what you deem most important for these gadgets.

    I'd also like to offer a challenge this week: Show us your craziest Nitro Cell kills! Post your video as a separate reply from your feedback and whichever video post gets the most "thumbs up" will be featured in the OP for glory. (Make sure to use the "insert video" button when making your post so the video is embedded and not just a clickable link.)

    I look forward to reading your thoughts and watching your videos!


    And as always, feel free to join any of our previous discussions here: R6 Community Discusses-All Topics


    Thanks to WBBCoop and NATural22cHANce for sharing their C4 kills!

    WBBCoop:


    NATural22cHANce:
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  2. #2
    I think secondary gadget system should be more open like each operator can choose any gadget. It would make for a more interesting games
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  3. #3
    Zoro's Avatar Community Representative
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    Originally Posted by feffreyfeffrey Go to original post
    I think secondary gadget system should be more open like each operator can choose any gadget. It would make for a more interesting games
    Interesting thought, I personally think this could be a good and bad thing for balance. Some operators excel with certain secondary gadgets, like Pulse with Nitro Cells for example - it just makes sense. But with everyone being able to take any secondary gadget, I feel like some of the "character" of certain operators would be lost.

    That might just be me though, what do you guys think of Feffrey's idea?
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  4. #4
    Originally Posted by Ubi-Zoro Go to original post
    Interesting thought, I personally think this could be a good and bad thing for balance. Some operators excel with certain secondary gadgets, like Pulse with Nitro Cells for example - it just makes sense. But with everyone being able to take any secondary gadget, I feel like some of the "character" of certain operators would be lost.

    That might just be me though, what do you guys think of Feffrey's idea?
    Thinks of Mira with barbed wire or Shield ops with breaching charges
    It will make role selecting mandatory instead of forcing players to be somebody they cant defend well with.

    Imagine Monty being able to carry a breaching charge or thermite.

    For balance purpose limit the amount of gadget can be used like 6 max barbed wire 3 max c4 etc
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  5. #5
    NATural22cHANce's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Ubi-Zoro Go to original post
    Interesting thought, I personally think this could be a good and bad thing for balance. Some operators excel with certain secondary gadgets, like Pulse with Nitro Cells for example - it just makes sense. But with everyone being able to take any secondary gadget, I feel like some of the "character" of certain operators would be lost.

    That might just be me though, what do you guys think of Feffrey's idea?
    Firstly, interesting topic. I'm looking forward to doing a full post later as well as reading everyone else's thoughts.

    As for Feffrey's idea, I think for the most part there wouldn't be too many issues with allowing every op access to every secondary gad, with a few exceptions. Fuze definitely doesn't need two more grenades or even a claymore to catch hostages *cough* defenders running from his cluster charges. I didn't really run through every single operator in my head, but I can't immediately think of any issues that would result from giving everyone a 3rd secondary option. However, I do think each operator is defined almost as much by their secondary gadgets as they are by their main gad or their weapons. I know it's not a gadget, but I was actually a little said when I heard that Jager and Bandit might lose their ACOGs, and I'll probably cry inside if Bandito Dorito ever loses his extra wire.
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  6. #6
    xcel30's Avatar Senior Member
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    Well i do consider the razor wire, shield and impact granades in all the same balanced level of usefullness, while nitro pretty much trumps over all of them, the only operator you could disagree about that is bandit with the extra razor wire. What breaks balance between them ends up being more bugs, such as using shields sideways to block windows, windows were made to be blocked by either barricades or castels, with gadgets that use them well such as kapkan and frost traps. kinda wishing that maybe we had more operators with 3 razor wire since that's the main counter to 3 speeds wich 3/4 of them have ways to safely destroy them (granades and gadgets).

    For the attackers side, they are vastly diferent in use also but also have a clear priority of picks, i mean taking away frag granades is used as a mean to buff and nerf operators and sometime if fails or not in doing that, it worked for thermite and buck case, but not so much for jackal and ash case, flashbangs are way wonkier to use, i mean have thrown falshbangs at feet of people and they were still able to see me clear enough to shoot me no problem (i know that kill cam doesn't show flash effect) they are certainly useful for clearing cornered people wich is something that 3 speeds are already absurdly good at, wich makes me wonder why all 3 speed attackers have them. Smokes haver pretty much 2 uses now, either help glaz be the pointman or protect people while planting bombs or large entry (such as thermite holes or large doors, they are not useful for entering small doors since the person can easily spray a small area to get a kill or damage you neither is good for cornering people since you would have to go through the smoke youtself and also be blinded, breaching charges are perfectly fine and not problem with them
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  7. #7
    Attackers by far have the more interesting secondary gadgets, and with better variety. I feel like there's something missing when it comes to defender secondary gadgets, barbed wire is the most powerful defender gadget imo and it's so boring. You just plop it down on doorways and other skinny pathways and that's your gadget used and gone. Not much more thought goes into it. Compare that to every other gadget in the game, where you'll always have it ready on the tip of your mind throughout the round - conservation, opportunities, challenges (jager's trophy system, giving away posiiton etc.) and you see how dull the gadget is. Mind you I don't think this is necessarily a problem that should be addressed by tweaking barbed wire, but rather a suggestion that defenders would very much enjoy a shakeup on their gadget meta. Small touches on secondary gadgets are probably enough considering that (eventually) half the gadget meta will be fixed once defender operator pick rates are smoothed out a bit.

    Attacker secondary gadgets are fairly balanced for the most part. I think the only ones worth discussing are flash grenades and frag grenades.

    Frag grenades are great. LOVE frag grenades, more versatile than any other piece of equipment in the game. There are some problems with frag grenades however. They should not be able to blow up castle barricades as a whole. At best they should blast open medium sized fragmentation holes like they do on soft walls.
    Also I have concerns about frag grenades as the operator pool increases. Ubi have been very careful to limit frag grenades to max 6 on the attacking side excluding recruits of course. I fear that this is restrictive to character design, to only have 3 operators at a time be able to carry such a great tool.
    They've done a great job designing their last two attackers be good fraggers without frag grenades, but this can't go on forever. They're eventually going to have to make a new operator with frag grenades. When you took away frag grenades from Capitao you left him a shell of the man he used to be, who will be next once Ubisoft decides to release a new operator designed to carry frag grenades? They'll need to find a way to forcefully restrict frag grenades per team lineup in a round while also having more than 3 operators be able to equip them.

    Flash grenades on the other hand are kinda bad, and many see them as the lesser frag grenade. If you have the opportunity to flash someone with a frag grenade, you'd most likely also have had the chance to just flatout kill or down them with a frag grenade. Flash grenades need something extra to them, partial flashes might as well not be flashes at all. Fortunately there's a lot of ways you can go about improving flash grenades. A lot of what I'll be talking about will also have Blitz in mind.
    First of all there is a lack of information about how much you've flashed someone. This itself isn't a huge issue for users of flash grenades, but Blitz will have a huge benefit if he can visually see whether he's fully flashed or partially flashed someone, so it might as well be applied to flash grenades as well. A partial flash could be shown with the offhand raised up to try cover the center of the affected person's field of view while a full flash could have their entire non dominant arm wrapped around their eyes. This leads into how it would affect the affected, you ideally animate the arm in first person to physically inhibit the partially flashed person's vision. As for the full flash, you probably won't have to have a first person animation for that as they won't be able to see anything on the screen anyway. Maybe add in extra tweaks like inhibiting their ability to aim down sight for a short period after getting flashed, restoring their ability to aim down sights as the main portion of the flash effect is gone, reducing hip fire accuracy for a bit etc. to taste. Beyond the arm animations I'm not sure how much is enough.

    Now for defender secondary gadgets, barbed wire rules them all. The rant I had earlier about them being boring might also be their biggest strength. There's none of that velcro ripping nonsense of BOOM noise as you use respective gadgets throughout the round, but rather having them deployed in preparation means you have a gadget that's always ready on guard without needing the player to give away their position. They slow down attackers to a crawl and cause mayhem in choke points if they don't have the gadgets to clear it. Older rumor's got it that Ubi wants to make the movement slow of barbed wire go from 50% to 20%, not a fan but probably wouldn't complain either if it becomes a reality. I personally would like to give attackers a stealth approach to dealing with barbed wire. Let the attackers walk (holding alt) through barbed wire without slowing them nor making any barbed wire rustling and top that off with maybe only a 40% slow. This makes barbed wire stay as an impactful gadget near objectives, but unattended you cannot depend on them to locate attackers. It also gives the attackers an extra layer of consideration, "is there anybody near this barbed wire? should i bash it once i enter and clear the room or proceed and not waste time?", it's the little stuff like that which makes siege such a stressful adrenaline rush at times.

    Deployable shields are such a cool concept but for the longest time their only super practical use was either with frost/kapkan traps, to basically be a doorway blocker, or to protect bandit/mute gadgets on walls which are open to certain angle (like oregon's kitchen-small tower wall). It's fine for the most part I suppose. It's probably not that weak, just weaker than what's op right now which is barbed wire.

    Impact grenades are really cool, c4 is fine and dandy so long as it's not on operators that shouldn't have one. Not much to speak of on that front.


    In regards to opening up gadget choices to operators, I totally disagree. The frag and c4 spam is the main reason, smoke spam with glaz etc. It'd be awful. If you opened up secondary gadget choiced EXCEPT for those gadgets, that'd be even worse because of how jarring and unusual it would be. However, I do question the 2 secondary gadget choices per operator design sometimes. It's cool how you can look at an operator and guess what their secondary gadget is probably going to be but this won't ever outweigh how cool it would be to give operators fitting options.
    Thermite can have claymores and flash grenades, fair enough. Why doesn't he get breaching charges? It synergises with thermite charges SO well, and breaching charge spam is the least of anyone's worries. Also why doesn't he get smoke grenades too? The smoke-flash shuffle a couple months ago was stupid lets be real it should be smoke
    Similar with Capitao, supposedly a king of versatility. Why can't he carry breach charges?
    I completely understand why heaps of these tight restrictions are here. I used to love Twitch with flash grenades but I'd never ask for them back because it would make her too similar to Jackal. Having the option between rook and doc be more than just their main ability but whether you might also need barbed wire vs impact grenades in your drafting. Prevention of barbed wire spam or deployable shield spam (it's annoying more than anything). That said a few operators such as thermite could really do with that third option you know? I think Ubisoft are too afraid to break away from their design consistencies and this might be a bad thing in the long run.
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    Zoro's Avatar Community Representative
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    Great points guys, loving the feedback so far.

    One thing I wanted to bring up, which I didn't initially consider until pyrokov mentioned that the Defenders are lacking in secondary gadgets compared to the Attackers is - Reinforced Walls.

    Although they don't quite fit into the category of a "secondary gadget", all Defenders (with the exception of Recruits) have 2 reinforcements they can deploy on a destructible wall or hatch. This allows the defenders to shift the flow of approach, in a way, and counters regular breaching charges.

    I'm curious if this will change any perspectives or at least expand the discussion a bit.
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  9. #9
    It would be great to be able to shift reinforcement to other defenders. So the trap operators could actually set their traps early and roam.

    Like in terrorist hunt we should have a ammo box in the objective
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  10. #10
    Weren't nitros changed around because too many defenders had them? Now it's being suggested that everyone have access to them?
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