A plea to the community from a Centurion main | Forums

[Knight_Raime]

I've tried in the past to defend the centurion specifically because I truly believe people are resorting to complaining rather than learning how to deal with him. I understand how bad he can be in 4v4. I have always disagreed about him being "op" in 1v1 though. So I figured rather than trying to explain for the millionth time i'd try a different approach. So here I go.

As a Centurion main i'm not blind to how frustrating he can be (I played vs him quite a bit last night in realistic elimination) and I get where people are coming from. It's hard to tell what he's going to do sometimes. I understand how punishing it feels to make a simple mistake. He's got a lot of potential things he could do. and if you're someone who's not used to his animations or what his kit has to offer I deff see how frustrating that is. I'm also aware that centurion is the only hero in the game that has a "50/50" with a soft feint GB. and while I don't believe that in itself is overpowered I DO understand that him being the only one with that makes it feel stupid and unfair.

I've said it before and i'll say it again. I'm NOT against him being nerfed. He's going to have to be considering the ptr changes coming. However his nerfs have to be smart. there isn't a simple fix that covers his 4v4 and his 1v1 problems. And you don't want to risk hurting him too much in either. I will leave 4v4 changes to the community as I primarily play 1v1 and occasionally brawl. However here are the suggestions i'd make to nerfing him (assuming the ptr changes we saw go into effect) specifically for 1v1.

~reduce his stamina damage overall. Kind of needed considering how OOS will be post PTR. He's got enough stamina drain attacks that will more than make up for the nerf.

~Currently you can get a guaranteed uncharged heavy after doing his parry punish (parry+GB) and I believe it's possible to get either an uncharged jab or a kick for free. Though i've never tried. We can just remove all of that. the stamina damage it does (while will be nerfed) is still going to be high enough to be worth doing. and the fact that it behaves like deflect (closes the gap from ranged parried attacks) is also giving it value.

~Centurion will not be able to follow quick throws or the parry punish (parry+GB) with a guaranteed kick.

~nerf the stamina damage and the actual damage of the charged heavy> charged Jab> pounce.

These changes would overall make him more understandable. But still with combos and good damage/stamina damage. Just not as punishing as it used to be.

However...and please stick with me. The centurion should also be buffed due to these suggested changes and PTR changes. i'm not going to bore you with explaining why a bunch of his kit isn't useful at the moment and still really wouldn't be post ptr. The main thing I want people to understand is that the reason he feels so good is because of his potential punishes. But the ptr changes will take away a lot of that. and these nerfs would take away more. The centurion just doesn't have a way in. Please just look at the suggested buffs. And try to think of them with the ptr changes in mind. Not what is currently on live.

~Make quick throw harder to tech. Quick throw doesn't give you anything other than a kick right now. and that's even if you land it. You can't get any damage off of it. Nor can you change where it throws them. The one thing it CAN do is wall splat. Which will be fine enough as a potential mix up to splat someone since centurion is about using his environment more than other heros. So they need to change the timing on it.

~Give superior guard/block on his charging heavy. It would only apply to the START of the animation. Basically like conq. which does this to block a move and get a free attack in. This would be centurions way in. At worst he's gotten a 20 damage heavy in on you. at best he's now got you in his soft feint game. This also fits considering his heavies currently deny feints for the most part. and he's basically built around heavies instead of lights like most people.

~Give a new combo to the centurion. Parry punish into light. That light would be considered the second light in his light light heavy combo. So he could from there either throw in a heavy which could be blocked. Or he could try to use it to get into his soft feint mix up.

~Make his zone cancelable if the first or second hit connects. Not on block.

~Give him a light>heavy combo.

~lastly make it so his uncharged jab is safe from GB.

The changes I propose give him a way in. gives another combo to go for other than trying to only rely on a charged heavy. Which means 1v1's and 4v4's become more interesting. since either combo would be good in both. and neither would be better than the other. The current combo would be more guaranteed damage than the latter combo. (but less damage now that nerfed) but it would be harder to do. where as the parry combo would have less actual damage and more stamina damage. But with the potential to mix up for some damage. Both would have a clear use. and both's benefits are tied to later on in the combo. and not at the start. meaning choice has to come in. His zone will feel less clunky. QT will be some what useful. and light into heavy would also give his lights more use. along with potential mix up.

in short these nerfs and buffs combined I feel fix his current issues. whilst making him the combo hero he was designed to be. but also making him easier to understand/less ****ty feeling to deal with. I specifically wanted to keep his soft feint mix up in because with the new changes to GB GB's in general will be less relevant. Which I like. But they still need a use.

So I want EVERY hero to have a way to soft feint a designated attack into a gb. Ideally this would be on a move that they can combo into.
I also want every hero to have a light into heavy combo. and be able to soft feint a light into their zone. all for mix up reasons. Anyway. I hope you guys who dislike centurion can actually look at my proposed changes and agree with some of the buffs. or at least agree that if we do the suggested nerfs along side the PTR that he'll have to be buffed in some fashion.

Thanks for taking the time to listen to a Cent main.

[CandleInTheDark]

As a peacekeeper main who has been through all this I tend to be more understanding

I do think that a rework is in order same as I was talking about with my own main yesterday, more than nerf him or buff him, over time fix some things one way and some things another and I strongly believe that those players who are not in denial that something in their main needs to change are most useful to the devs.

My main issue isn't so much the centurion, it is crowd control as a whole. I once dodged a cent, got tripped by a valk, got floor pinned by the original cent and another because why wouldn't they if they can, if that hadn't killed me I would still have eaten a valk heavy I couldn't have blocked. It is why they are right in that they need to fix him in 4v4 without wrecking him in 1v1.

[Lyskir]

sounds good

[Alustar.exe]

I could also see these breaking up the repeated use of kicks and jabs to keep a person from actually seeing the fight. I like the attention to detail you have of the class, too. No wonder your getting hate being a Cent main lol!

[Knight_Raime]

As a peacekeeper main who has been through all this I tend to be more understanding

I do think that a rework is in order same as I was talking about with my own main yesterday, more than nerf him or buff him, over time fix some things one way and some things another and I strongly believe that those players who are not in denial that something in their main needs to change are most useful to the devs.

My main issue isn't so much the centurion, it is crowd control as a whole. I once dodged a cent, got tripped by a valk, got floor pinned by the original cent and another because why wouldn't they if they can, if that hadn't killed me I would still have eaten a valk heavy I couldn't have blocked. It is why they are right in that they need to fix him in 4v4 without wrecking him in 1v1.

Yeah I can agree general CC in 4v4 centurion or not is a bit insane. Part of the reason I don't really enjoy 4v4. Team fights just feel bad in this game.

[Knight_Raime]

sounds good

Thank you for taking the time to read and give your input. (:

I could also see these breaking up the repeated use of kicks and jabs to keep a person from actually seeing the fight. I like the attention to detail you have of the class, too. No wonder your getting hate being a Cent main lol!

Yeah the overall goal was to make him more understandable/less punishing feeling wise. Like while you CAN get a jab or a kick in more than one way I personally don't do it or see it often at my skill level because either it doesn't happen or it's not worth going for. Which resulted in my skewed understanding of what other deal with. Last night in realistic elimination was a real eye opener for me about dealing with centurions.

[Butonfly]

The #1 complaint I've seen about Centurion had nothing to do with frustration or OP'ness, rather that he was unfun to fight against in matches due to how he functions mechanically. Thus he ruined the game post Season 2. Something that can't be "fixed" with nerfs.

That said, nerf away. You'll see less of him the less effective he becomes.

[BudgetParrot118]

To be honest as it stands now as far as Improvement dismissing the Centurion however I think the game is fair skill if you removed all these stamina attacks shoves carries in that s*** if it was just striking and parrying I think it be pretty fair and balanced. When it comes to stamina drain characters life pull versus their stamina pool in coordination with a larger life pull means slower heavies that's a trend I've noticed. Its not like the game is totally trash.

Again the problem is that you have these moves that add spice and also speed up the process of a round or combat (because let's be honest if you have someone really good at the game it's going to be a hit Perry into another hit then a Perry and another hit and another Perry so on and so forth till they're out of stamina over and over again resulting in a stalemate)

So I'm not saying they all need to be removed because the game would kind of be boring without each character having a special attack or special move sets that are unique to their own fighting style they just need to be implemented in more of a controlled anti-spam way that's where all the source of our pain comes from.

Again dismissing centurion because his build is total fodder.

[Knight_Raime]

The #1 complaint I've seen about Centurion had nothing to do with frustration or OP'ness, rather that he was unfun to fight against in matches due to how he functions mechanically. Thus he ruined the game post Season 2. Something that can't be "fixed" with nerfs.

That said, nerf away. You'll see less of him the less effective he becomes.

From what I've seen (and been told via messages on my platform) the complaints are usually: he's unfun because of his pin combo, his cc in 4v4, and his damage/stamina damage.

I have to disagree. I believe you can tone down his frustration by removing some of the places he can do things in and nerfing the overall damage/stamina damage.

[Knight_Raime]

To be honest as it stands now as far as Improvement dismissing the Centurion however I think the game is fair skill if you removed all these stamina attacks shoves carries in that s*** if it was just striking and parrying I think it be pretty fair and balanced. When it comes to stamina drain characters life pull versus their stamina pool in coordination with a larger life pull means slower heavies that's a trend I've noticed. Its not like the game is totally trash.

Again the problem is that you have these moves that add spice and also speed up the process of a round or combat (because let's be honest if you have someone really good at the game it's going to be a hit Perry into another hit then a Perry and another hit and another Perry so on and so forth till they're out of stamina over and over again resulting in a stalemate)

So I'm not saying they all need to be removed because the game would kind of be boring without each character having a special attack or special move sets that are unique to their own fighting style they just need to be implemented in more of a controlled anti-spam way that's where all the source of our pain comes from.

Again dismissing centurion because his build is total fodder.

I think his design is fine. It just needs polishing. I disagree with him being anything close to spammy. then again I play 1v1. I can't speak on 4v4. Though 4v4 is and imo always will be a spam fest of moves. wether its stam drain attacks or safe moves.