Just make Parry an "Attack", and not an free lazy opener. | Forums

[Butonfly]

Easy way to keep it, but also normalize it. You parry a heavy you deal 5 "chip" damage for your effort (at no stamina cost). Parry a light deal 10 "chip" damage (at no stamina cost). Have the damage dealt in the same parry animation, and combat/animations etc return to normal. No free BG's, no free lights, no free heavies, no free head bash or unblockable combo openers etc etc etc. Parry still a thing, it has a risk, it has a reward, but has no ******** attached to it.

[Antonioj26]

Easy way to keep it, but also normalize it. You parry a heavy you deal 5 "chip" damage for your effort (at no stamina cost). Parry a light deal 10 "chip" damage (at no stamina cost). Have the damage dealt in the same parry animation, and combat/animations etc return to normal. No free BG's, no free lights, no free heavies, no free head bash or unblockable combo openers etc etc etc. Parry still a thing, it has a risk, it has a reward, but has no ******** attached to it.

Useless to parry than, lights seem appropriate enough with the exception of Orochi. Deflects may need looking into after this but we will see, all of the assassins benefit greatly from the change since it will be so much More worth it to deflect than parry. Shinobi may be bumped up quite high after this since his deflect does incredible damage but again too early to tell.

[Butonfly]

Useless to parry than, lights seem appropriate enough with the exception of Orochi. Deflects may need looking into after this but we will see, all of the assassins benefit greatly from the change since it will be so much More worth it to deflect than parry. Shinobi may be bumped up quite high after this since his deflect does incredible damage but again too early to tell.

The window for deflect is so small, the risk to do so has never outweighed the reward.

Dodging, in general, has always come with risks that've put it appropriately at a disadvantage. Those risks will remain, as will the ones associated with deflecting. So yes, great, dodge, deflect, they're still things, but they're not going to be anything more than they are now. You obviously don't main an assassin, or play outside of the turtle meta.

[Antonioj26]

The window for deflect is so small, the risk to do so has never outweighed the reward.

Dodging, in general, has always come with risks that've put it appropriately at a disadvantage. Those risks will remain, as will the ones associated with deflecting. So yes, great, dodge, deflect, they're still things, but they're not going to be anything more than they are now. You obviously don't main an assassin, or play outside of the turtle meta.

I haven't noticed a difference in the window and even if it was saying a 50 damage deflect isn't worth a 15 damage light isn't worth it is ludicrous. Even if you miss 3 times you come up.

[UbiNoty]

I can make the suggestion to the team.
I think we want to move parry to a more high-risk, appropriate reward place as opposed to it's current low-risk high-reward. And the high-risk PT parry changes would potentially make parry a poor choice if we just added chip damage to it, so we'd also have to make the parry window bigger once again...which could perhaps be an answer to the turtle meta-but I also feel like in that situation parry runs the risk of being obsolete.

It's something to think about though, so thank you for the idea.

[Butonfly]

I haven't noticed a difference in the window and even if it was saying a 50 damage deflect isn't worth a 15 damage light isn't worth it is ludicrous. Even if you miss 3 times you come up.

To give an illustration-

Parry is like catching a ball in a giant novelty sized baseball mit.

By comparison, Deflect is like catching a fly with chopsticks.

[Sneaky-Patches]

To give an illustration-

Parry is like catching a ball in a giant novelty sized baseball mit.

By comparison, Deflect is like catching a fly with chopsticks.

That's right, much harder to do.

Also people are going on about shinobis deflect being the "best", and on paper it might be just a fraction statistically better than some but...

-currently it's broken because the following "guaranteed" kick/ light often just whiffs and falls completely short.

-pulling off two in a row doesn't double the damage, so it's just like getting robbed out of all your damage for no reason, unlike orochi, or zerker would be.

- higher risk for this class because your health is just to damn low to often risk it for the biscuit.

-currently pulling off a second deflect shortly after the first doesn't even "refresh" the bleed effect, it actually counts as zero until the first bleed has entirely worn off.

-shinobis stam won't regenerate for like 5 second after pulling off a deflect, so dumb.

-it's bleed damage, which is worse than just raw damage especially in a group fight where you may have technically killed one of the two attackers with bleed, but they can still just spam attacks at you before they die, or often get to a point or hit some minions for health.

-bleed damage is reduced severely by people that stack the debuff stat, and I believe some heroes have feats that make them immune (not sure if that's still the case)

Orochi can destroy with his heavy deflects, zerker can get a free gb (and wall throw people for a top heavy and demolish their health) a free gb in this new defensive change will be like gold dust. Pks is ok and maybe a bit worse than shinobis ( with the exception of all shinobis deflect bugs) but it doesn't matter as Pk is still objectively the best assasin followed by zerker.

Shinobi needs his fixed and it needs a buff, it's just not worth it atm.

[Antonioj26]

To give an illustration-

Parry is like catching a ball in a giant novelty sized baseball mit.

By comparison, Deflect is like catching a fly with chopsticks.

Give me hard numbers, not analogies that don't actually give me any sort of objectivity.

[Antonioj26]

That's right, much harder to do.

Also people are going on about shinobis deflect being the "best", and on paper it might be just a fraction statistically better than some but...

-currently it's broken because the following "guaranteed" kick/ light often just whiffs and falls completely short.

-pulling off two in a row doesn't double the damage, so it's just like getting robbed out of all your damage for no reason, unlike orochi, or zerker would be.

- higher risk for this class because your health is just to damn low to often risk it for the biscuit.

-currently pulling off a second deflect shortly after the first doesn't even "refresh" the bleed effect, it actually counts as zero until the first bleed has entirely worn off.

-shinobis stam won't regenerate for like 5 second after pulling off a deflect, so dumb.

-it's bleed damage, which is worse than just raw damage especially in a group fight where you may have technically killed one of the two attackers with bleed, but they can still just spam attacks at you before they die, or often get to a point or hit some minions for health.

-bleed damage is reduced severely by people that stack the debuff stat, and I believe some heroes have feats that make them immune (not sure if that's still the case)

Orochi can destroy with his heavy deflects, zerker can get a free gb (and wall throw people for a top heavy and demolish their health) a free gb in this new defensive change will be like gold dust. Pks is ok and maybe a bit worse than shinobis ( with the exception of all shinobis deflect bugs) but it doesn't matter as Pk is still objectively the best assasin followed by zerker.

Shinobi needs his fixed and it needs a buff, it's just not worth it atm.

-only on certain attack. The only one that comes to mind is raiders top heavy

-Yeah this shouldnt happen but how often is this actually happening to you? The bleed lasts 5-6 seconds with 2 of those being the kick and heavy follow up. By the time you can deflect again your enemies bleed should be gone unless this guy is attacking wildly. I agree it should be fixed but its a rare occurence that you would be pulling them off especially with the way you are downplaying its effectiveness.

- no 3 lights aside from orochis can kill a shinobi but 3 deflects can kill just about everyone. Thats the trade off for him have low health.

- You already said this

-Its like 1 second not 5 for regeneration

-But its 50 damage so thats the trade for it being bleed, it takes longer but it does more damage overall. Bleed would be garbage or broken if it was any other way

- Last I checked debuff resistance isnt affected by bleed. It wasn't in season 1 so unless thats changed then its not a problem. Who is even stacking debuff resistance instead of exhaustion and defense? I cant think of a more useless stat.

heavy Orochi deflects are terrible, you can just roll away. Zerks is very good but still not as good as shinobis since his needs a wall to do more damage than shins.

[AnEnticingSquid]

What if vanguards parry, assassins deflect, heavies superior block, and hybrids do a mix of 2 of Them? That way parrys would be a class specific thing and everybody is happy? Well not everybody... but I would...