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  1. #1

    Authenticity vs. Realism

    I found this on Brothers In Arms Legacy forums and i think is something that most of the people here need to read, it may not be about the same videogame but the idea and the complains are the same/similar

    Applies because Ghost Recon is aiming for Authenticity.

    I've seen a lot of people on here saying the game isn't realistic and such. Things like "the reload time on the M1 isn't realistic!!" have gotten me to a point to make a disctinction between the two.

    Authenticity is about capturing the experience, and using authentic tactics with authentic weaponry and authentic battlefield situations. Authenticity would include the fire and manuever tactics, along with authentic weapons to use in those situations. Authenticity is taking real events that actually happened and using them in a game or movie. Using real people, or basing characters off real people, rather than making things up (Like MOH).

    Realism is the detailed aspect of that. Realism helps capture the authenticity with the heart-pounding action, drama, and emotions that surrounded the battles. No game will ever be completely realistic. Sometimes realism can go too far. No, you can't go prone or lean, so what? No, you don't run out of breath. And no, you don't have to take a nap or a piss.

    This game is going for authenticity. CoD went with a good concept of not going to war alone. Now BiA has taken that concept and built upon it to make a more authentic WWII. I'd rather my reload times be unrealistic and be in an authentic feeling/looking battlefield where I control where the battle goes...than having a realistic load time in which I'm fighting off a platoon of Germans all alone in a small town in Germany based off a made up mission.

    So in the end, we know that no game will ever be completely realistic. Also, none of us can say what is real and what isn't unless we've been in a direct combat situation. We can also get more out of authenticity than realism, because realism has limits to how fun it can be. It would be realistic to have a game where you eat, sleep, and relieve yourself regularly, but that wouldn't be fun.

    So if you're going to say "This game isn't realistic!" go ahead, but remember the game is aiming to be authentic, not realistic.


    Author: @Borofsky
    Date 2005
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  2. #2
    Well no one can deny that the people who created the world definitely captured the authenticity and created a real master piece.

    However, the <insert appropriate terms of abuse to describe your utter contempt of the> team who created some broken elements of the game on top of that should be banned from ever touching a computer again in their lives and certainly never working on a game and ruining someone else's excellent work.

    As far as realism goes, it will be along time before a game can capture that and I'm not sure it would be a good idea creating such realism that gamers end up with PTSD, but VR is getting better. Sadly product development teams seem to be getting worse over time and commercial pressures trample on everything else.

    There are so many little easy thing they could have done with a little more thought and probably little or no more cost.

    In the end this is typical of the recent production of large companies - part of you really admires what has been done, part of your wants to slap the person(s) responsible for some of the utter stupidity in design choices made and game breaking bugs that never get worked on.
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  3. #3
    Originally Posted by KG_Khazul Go to original post
    Well no one can deny that the people who created the world definitely captured the authenticity and created a real master piece.

    However, the <insert appropriate terms of abuse to describe your utter contempt of the> team who created some broken elements of the game on top of that should be banned from ever touching a computer again in their lives and certainly never working on a game and ruining someone else's excellent work.

    As far as realism goes, it will be along time before a game can capture that and I'm not sure it would be a good idea creating such realism that gamers end up with PTSD, but VR is getting better. Sadly product development teams seem to be getting worse over time and commercial pressures trample on everything else.

    There are so many little easy thing they could have done with a little more thought and probably little or no more cost.

    In the end this is typical of the recent production of large companies - part of you really admires what has been done, part of your wants to slap the person(s) responsible for some of the utter stupidity in design choices made and game breaking bugs that never get worked on.
    I agree.
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  4. #4
    KenKoerperich's Avatar Banned
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    This game is neither IMO.

    Bullet drop in this game is horrible.
    Distances are horrible. I'm a Veteran and I can take an M4 Iron sights and hit 99/100 times at 300m. In this game your lucky, with a scope to hit 60/100 times.
    Sniper rifles in the right hands, and in game we are using highly trained "Operators" should be reaching 800m+ easily. Hell, I can shoot at 3 targets, all at 200 m and have 2 of the shots completely drop below the target.
    No Operator is going to carry all the crap that the game gives us on our skill chart. It will be spread out across the Team.
    Driving in game SUCKS!
    Flying in game SUCKS!

    List goes on, all of which isn't authentic, nor anywhere near realistic.

    Sorry, it's just a shooting game, and you have to WORK hard at making it even fun with all the BS glitches, craptastic bullet drops, so on and so forth.
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  5. #5
    The game is neither Authentic nor Realistic in the slightest and is considerably far from reaching either of those things.
    Would be nice if they moved more in that direction in the next game as this one is far too much of an arcade game, so to have a more grounded and serious tone/direction going forward.
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  6. #6
    K0ZAK1's Avatar Senior Member
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    REALISM that's what GRW needs, but first NOOBS like you and Ubisoft need to start watching action movies and youtube and Military channel about everything there is about Navy Seals/Seal Team 6 and other real life Tactical Special Force Units only then ya all fools with 0 knowledge about Special Forces will be on my level of realism You must be joking authentic to what Special Force Unit don't be afraid to say it?? let's argue a little on realism
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  7. #7
    AI BLUEFOX's Avatar Senior Member
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    Bullet drop is a good example of the compromises the Devs are deciding on when balancing realism and authenticity and how much personal taste comes into that mix. Taken to the literal definitions of realism that some would like, the game would be as boring as hell for me just as it would be if it was too unrealistic.

    Muzzle velocities could be tuned more towards the real end of the scale, that's my preference, and it was a little after the closed beta I'm pretty sure, but tuned all the way, with the draw distance as they are and the typical engagement distances that players are using, then realistic drop may not be worth having in the game at all. Adjusting for drop is authentic, but the amount isn't realistic because the Devs are emphasising the feature. Same with flying and driving (helicopter controls aside which the Devs have taken on board). Sliding off a dirt track at 80 mph is both authentic and realistic and taking damage is authentic, whereas the amount is totally unrealistic! Self-righting is both unrealistic and nowhere near authentic but is a game feature put in, because most of us would be frustrated by the speeds we'd have to keep if we couldn't make mistakes.

    I can't criticise the Devs for where they have set the balance in these features, they know more about their audience and players than you'd think, but I do think that there could be more option settings that give players access to control more of the parameters. Vehicle damage on, for instance.
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  8. #8
    One might argue that part of the problem is the sights all appear to be 'sighted' for zero meters which will have the effect of significantly exaggerating the impact of bullet drop.
    OTOH if the weapons had been reasonably sighted at likely combat ranges for each weapon type, then maybe it would not be so obvious (given the lack of range and windage adjustment on scopes).
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  9. #9
    The velocity is probably the biggest issue as far as shooting goes the drop is somewhat understandable given the extremely limited enemy render distance. The drop could be toned down a bit on a few of the the guns though (the SVD comes to mind). Might be nice to mitigate the velocity drop off with suppressed firearms by allowing for supersonic ammo to be used in place of what apears to be subsonic rounds when useing a suppressor.
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  10. #10
    Flanker1Six's Avatar Senior Member
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    Velocity and BD.

    Makes me long for the now ancient and primitive S.T.A.L.K.E.R. series (hhhhhmmmmm wonder if they'd run on Win 10???) which had easily accessible weapons files with most of the weapons performance parameters listed in simple numerical terms; including velocity (likely meters per second); you could edit with any text editor.

    Crank it up...................flatter trajectory, shorter bullet flight time (or course there was a numerical base damage parameter too). Crank it down, greater ballistic drop and longer flight time. Didn't like the caliber your weapon came with.................too easy to change, and oh so satisfying.

    God only knows what we'd be up to if Ubi let us do that kind of rad **** with GRW.
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