How too fix the gank without touching revenge | Forums

[nyrue]

1. fix GB stun locking, this is where your opponent locks you in place while other opponents attack you

a. add invulnerability frames while being GB until your guard returns after a successful counter guard break

b. increase push back on successful counter GB forcing your opponent too close distance before he can GB again

c. add a minor stamina penalty too your opponent upon successful counter GB

d. all of the above

also someone on these forums had a cool idea that i'm fully endorsing, add the ability to choose what direction your opponent is pushed back upon successful CGB to allow for better spacing options, or take it one step further and make CGB equal too that of a throw

2. fix auto parry, there are these frames 3-4 I think in between a successful parry and before you guard returns where you can be struck and you cannot defend yourself
there is no reason for these frames too exist please fix this

3. let us buffer the recovery frames of an attack chain, so if I attack my opponent even if my attack connects you can still be Guard Broken on recovery, too me this is unacceptable punishing someone for simply attacking, if you let us buffer the recovery frames by attacking with the next attack in the chain this should more or less solve this problem while maintaining the integrity of duels

4. running charge moves such as shugoki's charge of the oni and warlords crashing charge need fixed and i'm going too tell you exactly how too fix them
first off I do not play shugoki I do not like him, that said when you nerfed charge of the oni you did wrong, you never should have removed the knock down instead, you should have moved the active frames of the charge near the middle or near start of the move removing the 50/50, the same change could also be applied to warlords crashing charge, also these moves need too be punishable on dodge, that means shortening the run distance on miss, you shouldn't have too shorten them much as the afore mentioned changes will already help with that

5. unblockable spam, warden shinobi centurion warlord conqueror etc the unblockable spam is out of control almost half the cast has an unblockable bash move and if your opponents are doing nothing but spamming these moves the only option you have is too continuously dodge hoping they don't GB you, I don't really have an elegant solution here, but here are some things too consider

a. you could increase recovery frames on these moves, I 100% believe this needs too happen even too a minor degree

b. make its so your immune too these effects while in revenge mode

c. remove the knock down while in revenge mode, its not really fair too other heroes that don't have a unblcokable bash attack as they have no real pressure while in revenge mode, or at least consider it as a balancing factor ( I know I said "without touching revenge" but I don't fully endorse these changes they're just something too think about)

and finally one last thing, centurions pinn mechanic absolutely should NOT go through hyper armor, this need remedied immediately

thanks for reading

edit: I also believe that GB on heavy start up needs looking at, I don't believe this mechanic is working as intended and should be rethought, its not fair too slower characters like LB,

[kweassa1]

1. fix GB stun locking, this is where your opponent locks you in place while other opponents attack you

a. add invulnerability frames while being GB until your guard returns after a successful counter guard break

b. increase push back on successful counter GB forcing your opponent too close distance before he can GB again

c. add a minor stamina penalty too your opponent upon successful counter GB

d. all of the above

▶ I disagree to the premise that this is even an "issue" to begin with... not to mention there are no "stunlocks" during a normal GB. If a hit from an outside source lands while GBd, the person that landed the GB loses grip. Only when an attack lands during a short window during after the initiator of the GB landed one's own attack, do both attacks land. Besides, being exposed to multiple incoming attacks is what CC is in the first place -- in any game.

That being said, the individual ideas do have some merit.

- a. disagree
- b. agree
- c. agree

also someone on these forums had a cool idea that i'm fully endorsing, add the ability to choose what direction your opponent is pushed back upon successful CGB to allow for better spacing options, or take it one step further and make CGB equal too that of a throw

▶ I also made similar suggestions in the past. I'd actually even go a step further.

My take in the suggestion I made way back is...

(1) is that in revenge mode, a successful CGB should push away and KNOCK the opponent down (GB deterrent, makes opponents fearful of spamming GBs on opponent in revenge mode)

(2) When you throw someone with a GB during revenge mode, any secondary opponent that your primary opponent (the one you threw and knocked back) bumps into should also be KDd.

2. fix auto parry, there are these frames 3-4 I think in between a successful parry and before you guard returns where you can be struck and you cannot defend yourself
there is no reason for these frames too exist please fix this

▶ Agree.

3. let us buffer the recovery frames of an attack chain, so if I attack my opponent even if my attack connects you can still be Guard Broken on recovery, too me this is unacceptable punishing someone for simply attacking, if you let us buffer the recovery frames by attacking with the next attack in the chain this should more or less solve this problem while maintaining the integrity of duels

▶ Disagree

4. running charge moves such as shugoki's charge of the oni and warlords crashing charge need fixed and i'm going too tell you exactly how too fix them
first off I do not play shugoki I do not like him, that said when you nerfed charge of the oni you did wrong, you never should have removed the knock down instead, you should have moved the active frames of the charge near the middle or near start of the move removing the 50/50, the same change could also be applied to warlords crashing charge, also these moves need too be punishable on dodge, that means shortening the run distance on miss, you shouldn't have too shorten them much as the afore mentioned changes will already help with that

▶ Disagree. Shug Oni Charge is mostly fine. The stam usage is a bit excessive, but the devs mentioned it was a bug and with the next patch, stam-related items will work properly. The only thing "wrong" with the Oni Charge is that the stam-regen block for 2.7secs or something is really, really excessive.

5. unblockable spam, warden shinobi centurion warlord conqueror etc the unblockable spam is out of control almost half the cast has an unblockable bash move and if your opponents are doing nothing but spamming these moves the only option you have is too continuously dodge hoping they don't GB you, I don't really have an elegant solution here, but here are some things too consider

a. you could increase recovery frames on these moves, I 100% believe this needs too happen even too a minor degree

b. make its so your immune too these effects while in revenge mode

c. remove the knock down while in revenge mode, its not really fair too other heroes that don't have a unblcokable bash attack as they have no real pressure while in revenge mode, or at least consider it as a balancing factor ( I know I said "without touching revenge" but I don't fully endorse these changes they're just something too think about)

and finally one last thing, centurions pinn mechanic absolutely should NOT go through hyper armor, this need remedied immediately

▶
- a. disagree
- b. disaagree
- c. agree

Revenge should simply offer you knock resistance. Way back when revenge was unkillable-mode, the knocks really helped in at least slightly offsetting the bullshi* OP nature of 15sec revenge with impervious temp HP shield, souped-up defense/attack and etc etc.. but now, after revenge is adequately nerfed to reasonable levels, the knock resistance is a must.

Basically like shug Rocksteady. Did you know that Rocksteady even resists Lawb longarm? You're pancaked over, but the shug immediately gets back up. This is basically what revenge mode should provide.

[nyrue]

you dont think GB spam is a problem in 4v4 game modes? and you were very good too explain most of your reasoning I have to ask why you disagree with being able to buffer recovery frames on heavy chains?

[kweassa1]

My reasoning is that "gank is a gank". People hate it and despise it, but the advantage in numbers is the oldest tactic known to mankind in any fighting situation.

In my reasoning, the onslaught of incoming GBs and light/heavy attacks from all drections, making it inhumanly difficult to CGB all of them and disrupted constantly in attacks is a due disadvantage -- a form of penalty and punishment on you for making the tactical mistake of not being aware of your environment and so easily falling under ganked situations.

Since this is a game, it is still advisable to offer some form of remedy -- so that was what the developers intended with the revenge mechanic. But initial incarnation of the revenge didn't just remedy the situation and offer "some" help, it just reversed things around 180d and screwed up with basic team fighting game tactics in that the revenge was so strong and effective that people actually preferred fighting outnumbered.

Hence, my reasoning is that offering ideas like your CGB = "minor penalty to stamina", or my "CGB while revenge mode = knock" provides a supplement -- as is the same with my "revenge mode = knockdown resistance" idea. It doesn't help you directly in combat, but it does provide some amount of psychological deterrent, as well as prevent the "one knockdown = insta death" situations brought forth by the cent.

However, when it goes so far as giving out immunity against GBs it removes a big chunk out of the lethality of the situation. Already good players are almost impervious to outside attacks, and usually only thing that punches through them are UB spams or GBs outof their field of vision. IMO the result of this suggestion would be that (if it were me) I'd actually WANT to be periodicially GBd by someone in front of me... since once I easily CGB that move I know I'll only have to CGB at certain intervals.

Much the same, another merit of outnumbering and surrounding the opponent is that while the opponent may be able to defend himself reasonably, escaping the said situation is a different matter totally, and the players who have managed to catch someone in a gank rightfully deserve that much adavantage. Your suggestions carry the danger of almost totally removing GB as a factor in the said situation.

[nyrue]

ah I believe you misunderstood me, i'm not suggesting an immunity to GB i'm suggesting that you be invulnerable to strikes at least up until you CGB and your guard returns, this is the scenario I face daily, one of your attackers GB's you over and over and over again while the others attack you trying to get guaranteed damage which leads too more guaranteed damage because of hit recovery, I don't think it should be easy too fight off multiple attackers but it should be possible, and right now its not, even the best players fall prey too this. to quote the great captain kirk "I don't believe in no win situations"