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kweassa1
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** Sorry for folks who have already seen this. Troubles with my previous forum handle "blinded" the original post from showing up, and thus it became necessary for me to re-post it under my current handle so it may show up properly again. **
The DEFINITIVE Set of Suggested Fixes to address the "Turtlemeta" and Class Imbalance"
■ Introduction
After months of playing, gathering information, analyzing, receiving community input and thought experiments, I feel now I am ready to suggest to the devs a final compilation of set of changes that will most likely solve much of FH's perceived problems in regards to the notorious "Turtlemeta" and "Class Imbalance" at the same time -- and, for more feasibility -- at the cost of minimal "new stuff" to be added in (new skills, new effects, new animations, etc..).
By now, everyone knows I have a really bad habit of saying things in a long, winded manner, so I will try to keep this as clear and concise as possible.
■ Addressing the Turtlemeta
A. How the "Turtlemeta" came to be
(a) Offensive actions (attacking) are exposed to considerable dangers of being countered by (usually) parrying, and in some cases even blocking, while also spending sources in the form of stamina.
(b) Since defensive actions spend no stamina it is very 'economic.' Also, defensive actions lead to cases of "guaranteed damage" -- usually through parrying, and sometimes even through blocking.
(c) Logically, it makes more sense to play in a defensive, reactive style that focuses on blocks and parries. Defense inherently emphasizes protection of self, and therefore, is more safe. On top of that, it costs no stamina. Even better, while offensive action can be countered and will often backfire into receiving damage which you have no way to avoid, defensive action, on success, will lead to a form of offense that will never fail because it is guaranteed.
(d) Hence, an irony ensues that you actually deal more definitive damage to the opponent by NOT attacking with your own attacks, but rather defending yourself from his attacks and countering it in the process. So defense is both safer to yourself, and more damaging to your enemies, while offense is both more dangerous to yourself, and not as damaging to your enemies.
(e) Therefore, maintains defensive posture throughout the fight and playing reactively is clearly more efficient and effective than fighting proactively and offensively. This is why the "Turtlemeta" came into existance.
B. How we can dismantle the "Turtlemeta"
(a) The analysis done in A suggests the most effective way of dismantling the "Turtlemeta", is by way of dismantling the very core, the heart of what makes turtling so effective -- the reality that "defense = offense" in FH.
(b) Remove "offense" from "defense" -- as in, greatly restrict/limit the ways of dealing guaranteed damage that comes as a result of successful defensive action.
(c) Also, implememt 'resource spending' to certain defensive actions to roughly match the 'economic consequence' of defensive action with offensive action.
C. What needs to be done
(a) Economic Consequence
- Dodges cost stamina
(b) Removing Offense from Defense (1)
- Parry no longer gives guaranteed heavy attack-
- Parry only guarantees light attack
- Parry still guarantees guaranteed GB
(c) Removing Offense from Defense (2)
- GB no longer guarantees heavy attack
D. Expected Results
(a) Continuous dodge movement is limited, making dodge less "basic mode of movement", and more of "defensive action with consequence".
(b) Guaranteed heavy attacks from Parry and GB are removed
(c) Parrying light and heavy attacks, will now both guarantee an unavoidable GB -- answering to "what's the use of Parry if not guaranteed heavy attack damage?" questions.
(* more explained at next section "■ Supplementary changes to Parry and GB")
(d) GB is conceptually changed to a grapple initiator that branches into 3 variations, none of which allow heavy attack damage, but all three with utilitarian use according to situation, answering to "what's the use of GB if not guaranteed heavy attack damage?" questions.
(* more explained at next section "■ Supplementary changes to Parry and GB")
(e) All 3 variation moves branching from GB can be countered.
(* more explained at next section "■ Supplementary changes to Parry and GB")
(f) All 3 main factors that cause "Turtlemeta" are dismantled.
■ Supplementary changes to Parry and GB
(a) Parry
- Parrying light attack will shake your opponent's balance and stumble the opponent towards you, closing distance
- Parrying heavy attacks will throw off your opponent's balance with more force and push the opponent away from you.
(* The mentioned 'pushing away' is purely discriptive. In actual functionality, it is the same parry animation as we have, with same relative distances as result of parry)
(b) GB
- GB is now a general 'grapple' initiating move
- <GB→light attack> will now initiate a normal light attack, and is treated as 1st attack of chain. This light attack will have daze properties
- <GB→heavy attack> will now initiate a 'throw down' move of mild damage that knocks your opponent down
- <GB→direction input> is the same, forced position change as we have currently
- <GB→light attack> can be countered by pressing light button
- <GB→heavy attack> can be countered by pressing heavy button
- <GB→direction input> can be resisted by opposite direction input
(* the "throw down" witj <GB→heavy attack> has enough recovery time to land only lights on the opponent, not heavy attacks)
■ Addressing the negative side effects and Class Imbalance
A. Possible negative side effects
When the changes as mentioned in "■ Addressing the Turtlemeta" are implemented, the following negative side effects can be anticipated.
(a) While the "Turtlemeta" is dismantled, nothing has been changed in terms of the defending player's ability to block and parry attacks, which means attacks are still difficult to land.
(b) The system is still inclined towards (a), which means defense has higher success rate than offense, and therefore, despite the dismantling of the "Turtlemeta", the classes notorious for being "overpowered" will still be the only classes that can carry out verstaile attack tactics.
(c) Since GBs and Parries have lost their ability to lead to guaranteed heavy damage, combination of points (a) and (b) suggest that for "normal" classes, the imbalance will become even worse, since the classes with Unblockable(UB)+Unparriable(UP) "opener" skills can still carry out strong, pressuring tactics, but "normal" classes don't have GBs or Parries to punish them.
B. Identifying the cause of low chance of successful attacks in FH
(a) At current speed of combat flow, higher level players can be very much trained to react accurately to most types of attack speeds, making it extremely likely for them to block incoming light attacks, and parry incoming heavy attacks.
(b) The standard "block" action through guard-stances have an inherent "superior against light attacks" effect, which will break combo chains and stop further attacks absolutely.
(c) When (a) is combined with (b), it implies a situation where all attacks attempted and received between players stop at 1 move each. One side throws an attack, it's blocked, the dynamic stops. The other side attempts an attack in turn, is blocked, the dynamism of combat is stopped again. The combat flow is endless interrupted in repetitive "1 move - stop - 1 move - stop - 1 move - stop ..." cycles.
(d) In turn, (c) also adds in a negative feedback loop back to (a), making it even MORE easier to defend attacks. Combo variations are effectively shut down via "superior light block". This drops overall amount of attacks attempted to very low levels in combat, removes branching combo variation as a factor, and slows down speed of combat flow -- making the "next move" from your opponent even more predictable and easy to react to.
C. Identifying the cause of Class Imbalance in FH
(a) In the defense-inclined system we currently have, it is difficult to get through opponent's defensive actions to successfully land an attack.
(b) Due to (a), and reasons explained above in "How the "Turtlemeta" came to be" section, the two factors combined made it a more viable and effective tactic to "draw out and counter the opponent's attack, which leads to guaranteed damage", rather than use attacks proactively, which success rate is too low. Getting through the opponent's defense with your attack is just too difficult.
(c) Due to combination of (a), (b), and the effects of "Turtlemeta" in general, all classes are tied together in a situation where proactive offense yields little results, and it makes sense to defend reactively. However, certain classes have a set of skills which can be afforded to be used proactively. It is the classes that are equipped with such skills that hold the initiative of combat throughout the match, never losing it, free to pressure the opponent into situations where the opponent's "turtling defense" will falter and crumble -- because, the skills such classes use, just bypass the basic defensive actions.
(d) Therefore, analysis of (c) clearly identifies the root-source of the class imbalance problem in FH. The "overpowered" -- so to speak -- classes in FH, are the classes that are free to attempt proactive and aggressive attacks DESPITE the current "Turtlemeta", because the skills they have inherently ignore most defensive actions.
(e) From (d), it can be concluded that as with any other game of the genre, the key to a successful, powerful character lies with whether or not the character is capable of pressing the opponent to take initiative.
D. The Reveal of the Culprit
The analysis of above sections: "A. Possible negative side effects", "B. Identifying the cause of low chance of successful attacks in FH", "C. Identifying the cause of Class Imbalance in FH" reveals to us a hidden truth which is very important. The inability to use combo moves, due to the initiating moves (which are predominantly light attacks) being blocked and the chain being broken by "superior vs. light attacks" trait of the common block plays a very prominent role in strengthening the "Turtlemeta" AND Class Imbalance at the same time.
(a) Every attack being closed off, and therefore devolved into a give-take of singular attacks that are blocked in turns, reduces the speed of combat, reduces the overall number of attacks thrown around, removes any variant moves coming into a factor, and makes the opponent's next move more predictable. This makes defense easier = It strengthens the Turtlemeta.
(b) When attacks are so easily blocked, and shut off, classes without "safe opener" skills naturally become extremely limited in their capacity to carry out offense. Whereas, classes that are equipped with certain "openers" with certain traits -- most notably being UB and UP at the same time -- are given the freedom to ignore the opponent's defenses on whim. This disparity in attack options FUELS class imbalance.
(c) The "superior against light attacks" trait on the standard, normal block IS CAUSING THIS.
E. What to Do
The game needs to proliferate to all classes equally, the "freedom of variation", and "freedom of access", which both enriches and strengthens the combat efficiency of classes that did not have such freedoms before.
(a) Freedom of Variation: If "superior light block" trait is removed from the standard block, players using classes without UB+UP skills still gain methods to pressure the opponent with more pure number of attacks, as well as more different variations of combos attempted, The number of attacks going back and forth two combatants will easily double, triple -- meaning more likelihood of the passive defender making a mistake, as well as different directions and variations of each combo attacks increasing the complexity of the attack, also contributing to lowering the success rate of reactive defense centered on blocks and parries.
(b) Freedom of Access: Good or bad, most classes have a certain variety of different moves under their moveset. In almost every case, a "superior light block" shuts off the attack chain, which, as a result, makes most moves inaccessible for these classes without the mentioned UB+UP "openers". This reduces the variety of attacks to be used when fighting against "overpowered" classes, which makes the imbalance even worse and more pronounced. The "weaker" class is pressed to always uses exact same set of light attacks to initiate attacks, which can be easily predicted and blocked, parried, and therefore punished. This forces the weaker class into the defensive, which, the "OP" class will now systematically rip apart with the abuse of UB+UP "opener" skills.
- The "superior against light attacks" trait from normal blocks, needs to be removed
F. Expected Results
(a) By returning the Freedom of Variety and Freedom of Acess, the negative side-effects to changes to Parry and GB can be addressed.
(b) Not only that, but also, distributing such freedom to classes will restore a reasonable amount of balance between the "haves" and "have-nots" of UB+UP "openers".
(c) Additionally, allowing use of combo moves despite lights being blocked, opens up a very wide variety of tactical options and situations FH has never seen before.
(d) The question, "if Parry and GB is nerfed and does not give heavy attacks, why should I use those, instead of just blocking?" is answered through this change. While it does not give out any heavy attacks as guaranteed, the difference between block and parry is that parry, unlike a normal block, "will stop the combos from happening by stopping the attack on the spot, and offering a decisive chance to retake the initiative".
(e) Therefore, if a player wants to see the same results as now, in the new suggested system (= stopping enemy attack variations from even happening in the first place), then he is forced to parry lights. If he does not want to risk parrying lights, and chooses to block, then he faces higher risks in correlation with the lower difficulty of just blocking.
(f) The overall proliferation of combos and movesets by guaranteeing Freedom of Variety and Freedom of Access, means it is now important to gain the combat initiative by way of attacking. You do not want to be on the defending/receiving end of enemy combo attacks, you want to be the one forcin them onto your opponent. This will go long ways to curing the slow-paced and repetitive way of "trading 1 attack per turn" back and forth defense-inclined gameplay players were used to.
■Conclusion: The picture we want to see with FH
The effects and implications of the "Turtlemeta" are well known. It promotes slow and dull combat with minimal amounts of moves and variations, and solely relies on reactionary defense which its fail-success determines the outcome of the fight.
The current way of things in FH, is what can be described as a minimalist approach to swordplay, whether by design or chance.
Many of the moves and variations are trivialized through the meta and turned inconsequential, and only a very few, handful of combat tools remain valid in this "picture." All the rest of the possible variables are shut down and thrown out.
While the relevant variables are so few in numbers, the importance of such factors border near the levels of absolute. Only 3 principle methods -- block, parry, GB/CGB constitute the absolute majority of the fight, and those few also DOMINATE the outcome of the fight.
What happens when the variables are way too few yet way too important, is that the importance of accuracy of how you use those few tools decides the entire outcome of the game.
In other words, compared to most games, the manifestation of difference in skill between higher-level player, and a lower-level player, is extremely brutal and brutally extreme in FH. When there are so few core variables that effect combat existing in the game, how accurately you wield those variables decide everything. Since a higher-skilled player can block, parry, CGB/GB better than the lower-skilled player, this difference by itself (almost) mechanically determines the outcome, because there's no other variable to effect the fight.
Hence, in a summarization, my suggestions can be categorized in the following manner:
(1) How do we get of the "Turtlemeta"?
→ Remove of attack capabilities from GB/Parry
(2) What do we do with GB/Parry loses its attack capability is removed from them?
→ Change attributes to GB to make it a utilitarian tool
→ Redesignate the use of Parry through (3)
(3) Removing "Turtlemeta" still doesn't solve the problem with defense being generally too strong
→ Remove "superior light block" from blocks to allow greater Freedom of Access
→ Allow wider range of movesets to be utilized as attacks without being abruptly shut off by a single block
(4) Imbalance still eprsists between classes
→ Remove "superior light block" from blocks to allow greater Freedom of Variety
→ Allow players to use different varieties to add more complexity and situations to become new variables that may compensate the "lesser tier" classes
This, is the picture, I think you should be painting, Devs of UbiMont.
(ps) Typo fixes coming. Right now, just too tired.
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