said many times but devs ignore it | Forums

[Tyrjo]

I really believe there was a huge battle at Ubisoft over the server issue. Decisions were made at some point and they ran with P2P. Remember we were supposed to have split screen play too and that was removed. I'd love to know the true story one day. Jason Vandenberghe isn't there anymore for a reason. Either he was against the P2P idea or it was his idea. Either way, to have the guy who continuously talked up this game for years to leave the team right after release seems very odd. Something big went down and we will probably never know the whole truth.

The true story reads time...and money. Which is the same thing in this regard. I'm only guessing here, but it probably was that Jason VandenBerghe wanted to delay the release since they game wasn't finished. Or he wanted to continue developing after the release with the same amount of resources to be able to make the game into what he _really_ envisioned.

They are probably cleaning out the boxes in their office as I type.. Roman should be fired and never work in development again.

While Roman is awful at his job, I don't think his job includes oversight of the networking.

This one I actually have a lot of sympathy for Ubi on - they basically had to create an entirely new architecture for this game and rush it out the door. It's a miracle it works at all.

My connection issues are certainly no where near as bad as they were in the past, and it's about as stable as any other online game I've played (and much better than tekken 7)

It's easy to stand by the sidelines and comment on someone else not doing their job. Until you have experience as a project leader in a multi million dollar project before (which you haven't and I have) you don't really know what you are talking about. Decisions are so much harder to make when you own the responsibility, have a budget and maybe someone on a higher level setting the conditions your work with. Sometimes it simply is not possible to solve every problem thrown at you. My guess is that the dev team is only a fraction of what it once was, and I think Roman and Damien (and everyone else left on the team) are doing their out most to solve the problems the game still has.

[C00tBAjenkins]

Exactly, I was thinking about this after I posted. Surely the worst that could happen would be slightly slower combat, longer reaction windows, slower incoming threats, a slightly slower pace. I don't believe the difference would have to be massive, assuming we accept that a difference would be needed at all.

The deal with a server is that info from you has to transfer to the server and then from server to other players and vice versa. That takes time.

For honor works by (im sure everyone knows) creating simulations. My guess is Really low latency is achieved in this state by vary small packets of data being sent and received simultaneously to each player. All the moves already have that buffer for latency built in. The game is optimized for this.

Dedicated servers would require all of that to be reworked. You might aswell make a new game at that point. I was thinking on how to get the best of both worlds. The low latency of this p2p and the stability of a server run game without an entire rework.

Also, Did any of you play battlefield 4 on launch? It was horrible. Dying behind cover, shots not registering, teleporting players all kinds of goofy stuff. It took a long long time for that to get worked out. So as much as this has issue's they are pretty small anymore and i think it has more to do with people's interweb connections than the game itself.

[Tillo.]

Soon™ strikes back...

[thornh]

The true story reads time...and money. Which is the same thing in this regard. I'm only guessing here, but it probably was that Jason VandenBerghe wanted to delay the release since they game wasn't finished. Or he wanted to continue developing after the release with the same amount of resources to be able to make the game into what he _really_ envisioned.

And this is where we have to go back to Ubisoft in general and not necessarily the developers. I think companies like Ubisoft and EA definitively prioritize release dates over vision. 14Feb17 was a date set in stone at some point and there was going to be a game released that day. Developers you better get your sh*t together and get this done. If Vandenberghe is a visionary, and I believe he is, then it is unfortunate that Ubisoft was the publisher he was finally able to sell his idea to. I'm a Sony supporter and, while I'm certainly not saying Sony does not put pressure on their developers to hit target dates, the culture at Sony seems to be one that is more developer friendly. I wonder how patient a company like Ubisoft would be with someone like Polyphony Digital's founder Kazunori Yamauchi, a true visionary and a man and a development team that has been given so much time to make his visions reality. Sony does it with Naughty Dog, Guerilla, Sony Santa Monica, etc. Love or hate Sony but you cannot argue that giving developers a little more freedom, and whole bunch more understanding, that the end products will truly speak for themselves. I wish EA, Ubisoft and Activision would honestly look at their business practices and seriously consider this type of approach. We all know they love money and we have to stop giving it to them so easily.

[C00tBAjenkins]

And this is where we have to go back to Ubisoft in general and not necessarily the developers. I think companies like Ubisoft and EA definitively prioritize release dates over vision. 14Feb17 was a date set in stone at some point and there was going to be a game released that day. Developers you better get your sh*t together and get this done. If Vandenberghe is a visionary, and I believe he is, then it is unfortunate that Ubisoft was the publisher he was finally able to sell his idea to. I'm a Sony supporter and, while I'm certainly not saying Sony does not put pressure on their developers to hit target dates, the culture at Sony seems to be one that is more developer friendly. I wonder how patient a company like Ubisoft would be with someone like Polyphony Digital's founder Kazunori Yamauchi, a true visionary and a man and a development team that has been given so much time to make his visions reality. Sony does it with Naughty Dog, Guerilla, Sony Santa Monica, etc. Love or hate Sony but you cannot argue that giving developers a little more freedom, and whole bunch more understanding, that the end products will truly speak for themselves. I wish EA, Ubisoft and Activision would honestly look at their business practices and seriously consider this type of approach. We all know they love money and we have to stop giving it to them so easily.

I think sony must be in a much better spot to allow that. Ubi on the other hand probably not so much. I miss the old days of gaming when that was the main goal it seemed. Some of the best games i played were user created mods. Counter strike being one of them. To bad that's all been flushed out of the modern gaming industry.

[CrunaCross]

How many post about connection problems do you need?

Blackout 1 wasnt enough?

whiteout FAILED

Blackout 3 will come if you dont SHOW servers solutions that work. GET DEDICATED SERVERS

Seriously. My gameplay will never be affected if you black out. At all. This is a game not a social movement. Your "Blackout" bullcrap will always fail because one simple reason. People will play if they feel like it, and they will not play if they don't feel like it. The devs have no obligation towards you or me, and they can drop the entire game right now if they want to. You have nothing. If you are bored of a game, do a blackout starting from now, and keep it up forever. Nothing will change.

[FledgeSRondo]

See here's what I don't understand, I started playing Overwatch on PS4 last week (which uses dedicated servers afaik), and not only are there no disconnect issues at all but more importantly there's absolutely no lag or latency whatsoever, it's super stable and runs so smoothly for hours and hours without hiccups or frame drops whatsoever. I play For Honor on PS4 as well, and though I personally don't mind the DC's that folks complain about (which don't happen as regularly as they used to, and never really bothered me too much in the first place), it's the horrible latency and lag in For Honor that regularly throws off my input timing that puts me in a rage: parries to obviously telegraphed heavy attacks that were properly timed and should have connected but didn’t, opponents whose speed shifts from slow to suddenly teleporting in frame jumps, trying to release a lock or shift guard stance block or just simply input an attack only for it to execute 1-2 inexorable seconds later (as though you're desynched slightly and are falling behind what's "actually" happening in the game timeline), the obvious framerate drops when multiple players appear onscreen. I keep hearing people saying P2P has a speed advantage, but in practice comparing two hairtrigger sensitive input timing games on the same platform using different connection methods that just hasn't borne out to be the case, at least in my experience, and for me it's this lag/latency that really makes play insufferable more than anything else. I have literally lost desperately close matches in their very final moments because of this, where glorious victory or cruel defeat is separated by the timing of one good parry, and when you're sitting there staring at the defeat screen in disbelief that the game very clearly failed to register your input there's nothing quite so miserable or discouraging.

[DrExtrem]

@ tillo

Don't forget: "when it's done."

I just played my first match if he day - off course vs. bots, because I actually want to play instead of waiting and the ****ing bots on my team were obliterated while outnumbering the enemy. The did not come to help me against three of the enemies either. They were again unable to capture or hold a position and simply fixed the game. The enemy bots however were turtling and abusing my attacks start up time every ****ing move.

Even your PvAI has become a steaming pile of horse crap. Or did I win too many games yesterday and this is the "equalizer"?

Add to it, that I have to reset my console every time I want to play or the input lag of my controller becomes unbearable.

One game and I want to throw something solid into my tv screen. Pure frustration on all fronts and the best example for and inconsistent experience.

[Gray360UK]

See here's what I don't understand, I started playing Overwatch on PS4 last week (which uses dedicated servers afaik), and not only are there no disconnect issues at all but more importantly there's absolutely no lag or latency whatsoever, it's super stable and runs so smoothly for hours and hours without hiccups or frame drops whatsoever.

Exactly. I don't really get how anyone can suggest that you can't perform actions that require timing and precision on dedicated servers, especially when most of us have been doing exactly that quite happily for years. You do not do anything so special, so unique or so new in For Honor that you are instantly struck with the thought 'wow this would never work on a dedicated server'. There seems to be some kind of lag myth, where people believe games that have dedicated servers are nothing but continuous lag fests with players moving as if in a sea of tar trying to shoot at or hit things that actually left the room 30 seconds ago. Maybe if this was the 90's and players were still using dial up modems but not in 2017.

[DrExtrem]

We are having lag-fests ib this game as well and it has p2p.

Hell I played space marine - a pure p2p experience and that game was basically unplayable in mp, because of various players lagging around.

On the other hand, I played a lot of tf2 on dedicated servers - there, it was easy to vote-kick people with high lag, if the system did not take care of them by itself.

Dedicated servers and p2p systems both work with predictions to make sure, an online experience looks flawless - the question is, what part of the system makes the prediction. The dedicated server or your client.

In my experience, dedicated servers are better - period.