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  1. #1

    How to fix Defensive Meta, Broken Game Mechancis.

    Hello. My intention is to keep this clear and simple. This thread will cover 3 things;
    1. How to fix the Defensive Meta.
    2. How to fix broken game mechanics.
    3. Current bugs within the game.

    I have also posted this thread on Reddit;

    https://www.reddit.com/r/forhonor/co...ame_mechanics/

    Defensive Meta

    Balancing classes is great but what happens when the meta changes? In short, classes will function differently within an offensive Meta or ideally a Balanced meta and we will have to rebalance classes again. Thus, we need to change the Defensive Meta before balancing classes.


    Parries - Currently, to much confirmed damage comes from parries with low risk to the player. The following are the recommended changes to parries;

    - If you parry, you do not get a free Guard Break(this is the number one change that needs to occur.)
    - If you parry a Light Attack, you get a confirmed Heavy Attack(or a follow-up based on attack speed).
    - If you parry a Heavy Attack, you get a confirmed Light Attack.
    - Change parries to combo directly into a quick throw without a damage follow-up -- instead of -- staggering the opponent into a damage follow-up.

    Blocks - Hiding behind your guard is safe. You don’t take much physical damage nor any stamina damage. The following are recommended changes to blocking;

    - Increase the chip damage from blocked attacks. Note: we would need to watch feats that amplify this affect to ensure balance.
    - Add chip damage to stamina from blocked attacks. Note: classes with stamina draining abilities would need to be adjusted.
    - Restrict how many times you can block without attacking before you enter a "broken guard" state where you can't block again until you attack.
    - Change classes whom end chains by simply blocking a light attack. These classes should function like Kensei i.e. match their guard and dodge into the attack which would end all chains.

    Attacks - We need to incentivize attacking instead of rewarding defensive gameplay. The following are recommended changes to attacks;

    - Successfull completion of attack chains replenishes stamina.
    - Successfully landing a hit after a feint replenishes stamina.

    These subtle changes wouldn’t drastically change the game mechanics. With the implementation of these changes we would gather more data and community feedback before making further adjustments.

    Broken Game Mechanics


    Unblockable spam - These mechanics have always been an issue in 4v4 but have become blatantly apparent with the introduction of the DLC characters. The following are recommended changes to Unblockable Spam;

    - If you use an UB on a GBd or staggered opponent it staggers you(i.e. the same way attempting to execute a GB on an already GBd or staggered opponent causes you to stagger.)

    Spawn camping - This has increasingly become more of an issue in Dominion. The following are the recommended changes to Spawn Camping;

    - Each teams starting zones do bleed damage to enemy players or instant death. This will prevent opponents attacking players as they are spawning in i.e. the players screen is still black and unable to respond.
    - Grant players a short attack and defensive buff as they leave the zone. To counter players attempting to camp the edge of the zone.
    - Change the map so that the spawn points are elevated. Preventing the enemy team from entering. Grant multiple exit points to leave the zone.

    Matchmaking - Matchmaking hasn’t worked well since launch. The current algorithm doesn’t work well for several reasons nor will it if there aren’t enough players logged in. The following are recommended changes to Matchmaking;

    - There needs to be a functioning party chat system outside of matches. There isn’t an efficient way to communicate with your whole party when you are at the title screen.
    - Class selection should be done before Matchmaking is launched. This will allow matchmaking to be done based on that characters current reputation level and armor level. Granted, the player themselves may be more experienced but gear will not be the deciding factor to win the match. This is currently the major issue with the existing matchmaking algorithm; gearless players being matched with geared players.
    - While Matchmaking is spinning up, we should be able to view and edit our classes.
    - After entering the pre-game lobby, there isn’t an option to leave the game until the match has officially started. There should be an option to leave prior to the match starting which using Ubisoft logic, should also help contribute to more stable matches i.e. finally getting into a match after a 5m queue time only to get booted once it starts because the host left.
    - If we aren’t going to change the class selection to occur before launching match making, then we absolutely should change the pregame lobby to show your opponents class selections. This will at least give us the opportunity to match their gear score so that we don’t get punished for trying a new un-geared class.
    - During the match there should be an option to “vote to kick” a player from the match. If a player is causing a problem in-game or not contributing to the match, there is nothing to be done accept report them after the match is already over. Many other games have this function and would be a positive influence one the match.

    Current Bugs

    - Reflex guard fails still occurring. This was acknowledged in a Warriors Den live stream but no fix ever came and it hasn’t been discussed again since.
    - Revenge isn't knocking people down or preventing stagger. This is blatantly obvious against Centurions but I’ve personally experienced and witnessed other classes negating the activation of Revenge as well.
    - Centurions are currently able to sustain an infinite stun lock off walls against all assassins.
    - Shinobis running the Stealth feat are immune from feats i.e. I can’t cast a debuff on them, I can’t throw anything at them, I can’t shoot them with a anything, etc.
    - More often than not, we can't activate chat in the pregame lobby until the match is starting. Some times toggling ESC twice allows you to get around it but this does not always work.
    - There is an issue when trying to revive an ally where the revive button doesn’t work. I’ve wasted 10-15 seconds trying to revive an opponent which could have turned the fight and ultimately ended up dieing as a result.
    - There is no GB indicator for GBs coming from targets that you are not locked onto. i.e. Shinobi using ranged GBs, Captains, etc.
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  2. #2
    UbiJurassic's Avatar Community Manager
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    This is a great collection of feedback that we've seen from players. We certainly appreciate the time and thought behind the feedback you've left and I'll forward it along to the team to read over. As for the issues we've discussed previously in streams, we'll be actively looking to get more information on where those issues stand currently with the development team and when we can expect to see them resolved.
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  3. #3
    ChampionRuby50g's Avatar Senior Member
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    I disagree that stamina should be drained on block, at least not a decent amount. It should be a minisucule amount. There's already so much stamina draining adding in more wouldn't work IMO. A shinobi can drain my stamina from full to 0 with just one moveset, and if you are already out of stamina, you'll just never get it back if your constantly been hit by someone.
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  4. #4
    Excellent, thank you for the forward and the reply.
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  5. #5
    Agreed. Stamina drain would need to be adjust for certain classes movesets. However, the objective is to discourage defensive gameplay so what would you suggest?
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  6. #6
    - If you parry, you do not get a free Guard Break(this is the number one change that needs to occur.)

    i agree and been pointing this out for a while now

    is it just me or step by step they are tweaking the recovery window ?.i believe now, sometimes the gb on parry is counterable (on certain occasions)
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  7. #7
    Glad you agree. Perhaps, I think it may just be slow inputs from your opponent too.
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  8. #8
    somehow i fear it could have a huge impact on hero like zerker , raider ,warden and kensei who rely heavily on successfull GB to throw stun opponent .with higher level player you can't get any GB if its not a free GB.
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  9. #9
    Aye, this is one of many class specidic problems. However, these are class balancing issues that would need to address after fixing the defensive meta.

    Do you have any suggestions on changing the defensive meta?
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  10. #10
    No , i don't have suggestion . I have never played much figthing game before ,i fall in love with for honor and since the beginning i found this game really hard to master (the duel part of the game).
    Now i have accepted the game as it is.I put a lot of effort to become good and now at this time i can't really see a change in the game mechanic.

    Faster recovery from parry seem to be the only thing needed to help casual player. there is some parry monster out there who would make any new player give up on this game.
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