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  1. #1

    Fortresses, Outposts, and the "Camps"

    So we got the regular outpost right? In Far Cry 4 there was a big brother version of the outpost which was the fortress. So maybe add enemy camps. Enemy camps would work the same as outposts in Far Cry 2; they're marked on the map, you can kill people in them, but you can't officially take them over. Of course there would be a smaller amount of these camps, but they would be a nice little feature.
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  2. #2
    HorTyS's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Canadian Beer42 Go to original post
    So we got the regular outpost right? In Far Cry 4 there was a big brother version of the outpost which was the fortress. So maybe add enemy camps. Enemy camps would work the same as outposts in Far Cry 2; they're marked on the map, you can kill people in them, but you can't officially take them over. Of course there would be a smaller amount of these camps, but they would be a nice little feature.
    Not a bad idea. I definitely wouldn't mind the world having little pockets of enemies that are unaffected by liberating the outposts/ towns. Hopefully they also add more scenarios to random encounters, but at the same time tone down the frequency of them. FC4 I feel like went a tad overboard with you not being able to go 200 meters without some guy walking a hostage around or a roadblock checkpoint or something. So we should encounter them slightly less frequently, but there should also be a wider variety of encounters...
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  3. #3

    Something Similar that I'd rather see...

    I think I'd rather see a game mechanic where the enemy could come back to retake outposts that you've secured.
    I know FC4 tried to do something similar to this, but it was just a raid, and you could never actually lose the outpost.
    Imagine if similar to FC4, the raid took place, and you decided not to go to help, if you'd later have to re-take the outpost.
    On top of that, with collected resources in the game you could "fortify" the outposts (or I guess towns in FC5) to rebuff any enemy raid.
    You could selectively fortify the towns closest to enemy territory, but raids should be slightly random, sometimes striking a little deeper into your territory.
    The more fortifications you place (including having some of your allies base there for added support) in a town, the better its chances are of fighting off the raid.
    If the town is still retaken, then you have to re-take it against your own new fortifications... making you have to use new tactics the next time round.

    For me, taking out the outposts is the most enjoyable part of the FC series. And I often found myself a little sad when I'd drive past an outpost I already took, because there weren't any badguys there. With a mechanic like this, hours of game play would be added to the game, and it would add a strategic element to the game over and above how to sneak in and stay alive.

    Like, if an outpost you take is near an enemy airfield, you can add some sort of anti-air weaponry (buy rocket launchers for the people) because the chance is greater of a raid including some air-power. Better fencing around the outpost would prevent enemy infantry from getting in as easy, but enemy vehicles could plow though it... so it wouldn't be as good of a defense for a town near a major supply line road. It could be like a mini tower defense game, except that you don't have to be there, and if you lose, your own defenses will be waiting there against you.

    Then, the game would have to add some enemy raid parties that move across the map in real time, so that you could ambush while they're on their way. And so that you can get a sense of what type of enemy force patrols which areas.

    I don't know, but the possibilities are endless. But the most important part would be that it shouldn't take away much time at all from the game... besides the gathering of supplies, which you already do.

    Any thoughts?
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  4. #4
    Originally Posted by SevenNine1 Go to original post
    I think I'd rather see a game mechanic where the enemy could come back to retake outposts that you've secured.
    I know FC4 tried to do something similar to this, but it was just a raid, and you could never actually lose the outpost.
    Imagine if similar to FC4, the raid took place, and you decided not to go to help, if you'd later have to re-take the outpost.
    On top of that, with collected resources in the game you could "fortify" the outposts (or I guess towns in FC5) to rebuff any enemy raid.
    You could selectively fortify the towns closest to enemy territory, but raids should be slightly random, sometimes striking a little deeper into your territory.
    The more fortifications you place (including having some of your allies base there for added support) in a town, the better its chances are of fighting off the raid.
    If the town is still retaken, then you have to re-take it against your own new fortifications... making you have to use new tactics the next time round.

    For me, taking out the outposts is the most enjoyable part of the FC series. And I often found myself a little sad when I'd drive past an outpost I already took, because there weren't any badguys there. With a mechanic like this, hours of game play would be added to the game, and it would add a strategic element to the game over and above how to sneak in and stay alive.

    Like, if an outpost you take is near an enemy airfield, you can add some sort of anti-air weaponry (buy rocket launchers for the people) because the chance is greater of a raid including some air-power. Better fencing around the outpost would prevent enemy infantry from getting in as easy, but enemy vehicles could plow though it... so it wouldn't be as good of a defense for a town near a major supply line road. It could be like a mini tower defense game, except that you don't have to be there, and if you lose, your own defenses will be waiting there against you.

    Then, the game would have to add some enemy raid parties that move across the map in real time, so that you could ambush while they're on their way. And so that you can get a sense of what type of enemy force patrols which areas.

    I don't know, but the possibilities are endless. But the most important part would be that it shouldn't take away much time at all from the game... besides the gathering of supplies, which you already do.

    Any thoughts?
    They already have something similar to what you are talking about, the Outpost Master. Not exactly what you are saying, but similar.
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  5. #5
    HorTyS's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Canadian Beer42 Go to original post
    They already have something similar to what you are talking about, the Outpost Master. Not exactly what you are saying, but similar.
    ??? OM is not really the same as what he was describing at all. Outpost Master is literally just the ability to replay an outpost. It is not that the outpost gets re-taken, and nothing about playing OM changes the layout, defenses, enemy patrols of the outpost at all, it just literally resets the outpost for you to play it again without having to re-populate all the outposts at once.

    I do think that when the enemy raids outposts that you should be able to lose it and have to reclaim it again, however I don't know if i'm super into the idea of fortifying them and having tower defense elements, just seems like busy work kind of 'fluff' mechanics. Maybe if it was just integrated into existing systems more. Like collectables. Reaching collectable milestones could unlock various defense for outposts/ towns you've liberated automatically or something... I just wouldn't want it to be tied to stuff like crafting or some other resource thing where you have to find a bunch of specific ingredients to do it...
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  6. #6
    Originally Posted by HorTyS Go to original post
    ??? OM is not really the same as what he was describing at all. Outpost Master is literally just the ability to replay an outpost. It is not that the outpost gets re-taken, and nothing about playing OM changes the layout, defenses, enemy patrols of the outpost at all, it just literally resets the outpost for you to play it again without having to re-populate all the outposts at once.
    It is very similar, adding in the idea of an outpost being taken over once again is just like resetting the outpost so it is taken over once again. If you are looking for the randomization, then can't help you there. Too many people would have to suffer over the fact that all the progress you did, disappears. Say you are driving to a far mission, or you are hunting, and then all of a sudden you see in the top left corner that some outpost is being overrun, and that if you don't go over to it, you have to liberate it all over again.
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  7. #7
    HorTyS's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Canadian Beer42 Go to original post
    It is very similar, adding in the idea of an outpost being taken over once again is just like resetting the outpost so it is taken over once again. If you are looking for the randomization, then can't help you there. Too many people would have to suffer over the fact that all the progress you did, disappears. Say you are driving to a far mission, or you are hunting, and then all of a sudden you see in the top left corner that some outpost is being overrun, and that if you don't go over to it, you have to liberate it all over again.
    Well considering that outposts in FC4 only got raided when you were off mission and near them, I think it would be safe to assume the mechanic would work similarly here, completely avoiding that frustration. I think the point SevenNine1 was making and that I agree with him on is that the enemy raids in FC4 were pointless to engage in because there were no consequences to ignoring them. You didn't lose that outpost if you didn't help defend it so what was the point of defending it? I think OM should remain, but I don't think it is the same as what SevenNine1 or myself are thinking when we talk about the possibility of losing an outpost. For one thing, if you liberate an outpost, and then lose it in a raid, it should be better defended with more/ harder troops patrolling it on a 2nd liberation attempt....
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  8. #8
    Originally Posted by HorTyS Go to original post
    I don't know if i'm super into the idea of fortifying them and having tower defense elements
    I agree with you on this point. It would take away from the general game pacing if you had to spend too much time working on upgrades.. and even more if you had to scavenge for materials to implement said upgrades.
    HOWEVER, if it was as simple as purchasing upgrades with cash from a list of upgrades, there wouldn't be any problems. It would just be something else to spend your money on.
    And if you remember ALL other FarCry games... your wallet is almost always full and you end up spending money on bs stuff that you don't really care about, or unlocking weapons early to clear up some room to sell the other junk you've collected. So, money isn't an issue AND they need more stuff for you to spend money on. This would be one more thing for you to decide where to spend.

    Also, there shouldn't be any need to specify where or how to implement the fortifications. They can be pre-set by the developers. You just purchase "Barbed Wire Fencing" and it is set up. No messy time consuming options, just the decision of where to invest.

    Canadian Beer42... yes you're correct the OM does let you replay the outpost... and this IS totally a nice feature. But you need to step outside of the story to do this. It is immersion breaking, and there are no consequences if you lose. I want there to be consequences for my actions. If I hear that a town is under attack, do I hold to hope that they can fend off the raid by themselves so I can finish hunting for some loot chest? Or do I come to their aid? And it would be cool if there were some strategic consequence for losing a town back to the enemy. Such as some of the map fog coming back around the area. Or weapon & ammo prices in all adjacent towns go up 50% due to diminished supply lines or something like that (or the people in nearby towns are pissed at you for letting them down).
    Something to prevent you from just letting them take back the whole map because you just want to fight them again.

    Anyways... the main issue for me is that if there is no kick-back, then it's just that same ol' "easy game grind" if you just keep playing you'll eventually get to the end no matter what. Well this would add another dimension to the game so that you have to do more than just the grind. (maybe this mechanic doesn't take place on easy difficulty, or it can be disabled for people that don't want the added challenge). I just always thought it was stupid that Pagan Min with his whole army didn't try to re-take outposts captured by the rag-tag golden path... you know? And the games are too easy too... so something else to spice it up.
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  9. #9
    I think we will have outposts/fortresses in the form of different areas you have to liberate like Fall`s End in the E3 Demo
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  10. #10
    MikeJDRW's Avatar Member
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    Originally Posted by Canadian Beer42 Go to original post
    So we got the regular outpost right? In Far Cry 4 there was a big brother version of the outpost which was the fortress. So maybe add enemy camps. Enemy camps would work the same as outposts in Far Cry 2; they're marked on the map, you can kill people in them, but you can't officially take them over. Of course there would be a smaller amount of these camps, but they would be a nice little feature.
    Good idea. The movie The Postman had some good woodsy fortresses and such built in towns near me (back in the 90s) for the movie. Perhaps the devs could conjur up some of those type of towns, camps, etc? .
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