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  1. #1

    Why the title AC Origins does not match with the Setting.

    Two days ago it was announced that the game that was rumored to set in Ancient Egypt and was codenamed Assassin's Creed Empire would be officially called Assassin's Creed Origins and that it would focus on the very first Assassins in History. Specifically the E3 2017 Official World Premiere Gameplay Trailer has the narrator talk about a group of people living and working in the shadows of the society and that they are the very first to be called Assassins.



    The setting of the new game is in Ptolemaic Egypt in the reign of Cleopatra VII, in the year 49-50 BCE. It was a time that Egypt was for centuries a Hellenistic Kingdom after the conquests of Alexander the Great and the Ptolemaic Dynasty was ruling a population of mostly Greeks and Egyptians.

    However in the past games we have information about Assassins that have lived centuries before the Assassin's Creed Origins setting. As revealed in Assassin's Creed 2, there have been important Assassins before 50 BCE whose actions have been significant and those Assassins were still remembered and honored thousands of years later by the Italian Brotherhood, the Assassins of Renaissance Italy. As we all remember, the famous Assassin of the Renaissance Age, Ezio Auditore da Firenze, around the years 1478-1488 visited the six Assassin Tombs of those Assassins and took from each tomb the Assassin Seal needed to unlock the Armor of Altair in Monteriggioni.



    Now three of those ancient Assassins lived centuries before the setting of the games making the statement that the Assassins of Egypt in the game set in 49-50 BCE are the very first is wrong. Let's see who are those Assassins and what they accomplished.

    Darius:
    The oldest known Assassin is a Persian Assassin of the Persian Brotherhood Darius. This Assassin was active during the 5th century BCE and was noted as the very first user of the iconic Hidden Blade. In 465 BCE, the Persian Assassin Darius assassinated the Persian King Xerxes I, who was supported by the Templars.

    Iltani:
    She lived during the 4th century BCE and was noted for the assassination of Alexander the Great right after his conquests in Asia in June 323 BCE. Instead of murdering him she used poison and after poisoning the great Greek King she retrieved the Staff of Eden, which Alexander had used in his campaigns. She was not only honored by the Italian Assassins in the Renaissance but was also honored by the Mentor (2000) who had a statue of her in his office in the Dubai Headquarters of the Assassin Order.

    Wei Yu:
    Wei Yu was a member of the Chinese Assassin Brotherhood who lived in China during the Qin Dynasty in the late 3rd century BCE. He is known for the assassination of the oppressing Chinese Emperor Qin Shi Huang in 210 BCE.



    In conclusion there is no way the Assassins of the new game to be the very first to ever exist as there is information about a Persian, a Babylonian and a Chinese Brotherhood. I hope that this will be explained and respected in Assassins Creed Origins.

    Also something that seems to have been forgotten by everyone, the new game, Assassin's Creed Origins is sett during the live of another well known Assassin of the past.
    Nothing is really known about her, but she is Amunet, a member of the Egyptian Assassin Brotherhood and she is the murdered of Cleopatra VII, as she poisoned her with a venomous asp, making her death look like a suicide as it was after the devastating defeat in the Battle of the Actium, as she died shortly after in August 30 BCE.

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  2. #2
    VitoAuditore's Avatar Member
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    If i remember it correctly, I think they said that the assassin/templar organizations have existed since the fall of the ones who came before, but they did not call themselves assassins/templars yet.
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  3. #3
    strigoi1958's Avatar Senior Member
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    Maybe the descendants of the earlier Assassins all died out and the assassins in Origin are the only ones with descendants in the modern day. And so are now called the first Assassins in history because no DNA exists for earlier Assassins to be accessed. BaYek is the first of the line from which we can access memories. So maybe technically not the first but the first in this case.

    Another possible explanation might be that the brotherhood had many names Assassins, Thugees, Samurai, Phonoi etc... and although they were all part of an assassin group and were all assassins, perhaps this is the only group who went solely by the name Assassins...

    Perhaps all those previous assassins did great things but this is a moment in Assassin history that defined Assassins.

    Maybe previous Assassins were told that in the future an assassin would be born who would start the path to taking control of all the pieces of eden and from that day forth it will be known as the start of the Assassins.

    I don't know I am just throwing out possibilities and I'm sure there are a lot more.

    Maybe... here's a twist.... in one of the pyramids was the first animus left by the first civ and all previous assassins were just ancestors of the Assassins in Bayeks time... and Bayeks assassins (slaves from the other countries), were instructed to enter the animus and use their ancestors memories to complete the tasks in an earlier time.... so technically they were not assassins, they were just used as assassins by the first true assassins in Bayeks time

    I'd be interested to hear what you and others think could be possible explanations?

    It might be another plot twist that MD/ 1st civ fans like to debate I'm sure there are lots of plausible explanations but story lines often have vague areas that the audience fills in themselves.
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  4. #4
    LORE DOESN'T MATTER.

    End of Story.

    If Ubisoft want to make new game the first Assassins, then that's what they will do. The number of people who actually care about all this is a pitifully small number compared to the people who actually buy the games.

    The main reason why we have an Ancient World Game set in Ptolemaic Egypt at the end of Early Antiquity is that it provides players the widest range of architecture from Alexandria-Memphis-Giza and other places. And also the most familiar set of historical figures: Everyone knows Caesar, Cleopatra, Mark Antony.

    It's expensive to make a game and Ubisoft can't take it for granted that they can make many games set in the Ancient World...so they have to put all their eggs in the basket. That basket is the Ptolemaic Era.
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  5. #5
    wvstolzing's Avatar Senior Member
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    I wrote this in another thread. I don't think it is that the 'lore doesn't matter' -- but that its various details can be doctored into whatever shape necessary, without really refuting anything substantial.

    Originally Posted by pirate1802 Go to original post
    I'm sorry to be a downer but isn't this a retcon? Seems like Origins is an unofficial reboot after all.
    It boils down to a terminological point -- these are supposed to be the first that 'called themselves Assassins'. They can simply say that the Masyaf 'Asasiyun' chose to make their order public (at least not entirely underground; occupying a huge castle, etc.) for some reason; and that's why everyone thinks the order names itself after that particular group.

    But, lo and behold, the name was much more ancient. Who knew, etc. etc.

    My guess is that they won't (can't really) retcon Eve's rebellion, human-First Civ war, Cain being the first 'Templar', and so on. My guess is that Bayek will unite groups ultimately descended from Eve's rebellion, but not necessarily in touch with one another and calling themselves whatever they like (the Mayan Brotherhood didn't originally call themselves 'Assassins'; similarly with the Roman 'Circulum Liberalis' in the comics [though this is weird, because they are later than Bayek's Brotherhood -- at the time the comic was released they were earlier than the earliest established (Masyaf); so now they could call themselves Assassins]).

    So, lo and behold, the order was even more ancient. (This we did know previously, of course).

    From what's been revealed about Bayek so far, it sounds like he discovers certain secrets, which lead to his transitioning from basically a cop, to occult freedom fighter. Those 'secrets' have to do with all the prehistory of the struggle initiated by Eve's rebellion -- so they can't retcon any of that.

    At least I hope not.

    Also, didn't someone say explicitly that they aren't retconning Darius's 'invention' of the hidden blade in 5th (?) Century BC? There was a link to 'the history of the hidden blade' on the official website, but I can't find it now. The first time I clicked it, it didn't work; and now it's gone.

    Also, as to the insignia on the pre-Bayek Assassins in Monteriggioni -- that need not even be explained; that's simply how the sculptor chose to adorn their figures. Similar to how European painters would use their own contemporary imagery (clothes, architecture, etc.) to depict scenes from the Bible.

    Another Also: I think it was confirmed at some point yesterday that Templars of Bayek's time didn't call themselves Templars, but something along the lines of 'the circle of elders'. Same thing, I suppose.
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  6. #6
    RzaRecta357's Avatar Senior Member
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    I bet Bayek discovers ancient **** and decides they were all apart of the brotherhood in the end and remembers their history. He has the eagle skull on his thing. Maybe he's what unites them and finally sets the Assassin's on the path of guarding the light from the darkness type ****.
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  7. #7
    Originally Posted by RzaRecta357 Go to original post
    I bet Bayek discovers ancient **** and decides they were all apart of the brotherhood in the end and remembers their history. He has the eagle skull on his thing. Maybe he's what unites them and finally sets the Assassin's on the path of guarding the light from the darkness type ****.
    Whatever, it comes down to the same thng. Bayek is the Founder of the Assassins and the First of them because the game tells us he is.

    The Lore and who his predecessors are do not really matter in any meaningful sense and everything is subject to retcons and changes. When they wrote and conceived FORSAKEN, nobody thought Edward Kenway, Haytham's dad, was going to be Mr. Blonde Pirate, but then it happened and the end result is that novel became a terrible and unfitting conclusion, and utterly anti-climatic. Then in SYNDICATE, they make Edward Kenway some special "Great Assassin" when he blatantly died like a chump. That doesn't make sense in the story, and only makes sense if you know that Black Flag made money and sold well.

    Their transmedia and other stuff is blatantly contradicted and nonsensical. INITIATES's Letters from Eseosa has Assassins backing the Haitian Revolution and supported by Robespierre in France, but in UNITY the French Assassins are anti-Robespierre, and Arno pals around with Napoleon well after that guy betrayed the Haitian Assassins. The only way that makes sense is that Arno is some kind of bad guy and the French Assassins are terrible human beings, which needs to be acknowledged in the games but so far has not received any.

    ...Basically this isn't the first time Ubisoft have rewritten and contradicted and shown blatant disregard for their own continuity and their own contempt at fans for trying to make sense of their nonsense. So let's not get surprised and in a huff.

    AC: ORIGINS is made for "Wee...sliding down a Pyramid is awesome"/"Riding a camel is awesome"/"underwater fights with crocodiles is awesome". Just take it in that spirit and forget the rest.
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  8. #8
    My theory is that the assassins that came before him were literally just lone soldiers. There wasn't an actual brotherhood established & there was no actual ritual/structure that each Assassin should of followed. They existed to protect human freedom but I'm assuming it didn't work out well due to having no certain set of rules or commandments, So they eventually died out.

    Bayek probably knew of this & thought ''hey let's create an actual brotherhood with some sort of system so the future can have stable assassins''

    I could be completely wrong but hey i think its a decent theory.
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  9. #9
    m4r-k7's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by harsab Go to original post
    My theory is that the assassins that came before him were literally just lone soldiers. There wasn't an actual brotherhood established & there was no actual ritual/structure that each Assassin should of followed. They existed to protect human freedom but I'm assuming it didn't work out well due to having no certain set of rules or commandments, So they eventually died out.

    Bayek probably knew of this & thought ''hey let's create an actual brotherhood with some sort of system so the future can have stable assassins''

    I could be completely wrong but hey i think its a decent theory.
    Possible, but as we can see Darius has an Assassin symbol on his outfit (this can also be seen in AC 2), so surely the "Assassins" or "The Brotherhood" must have had a symbol already, making me think that a group already existed, rather than lone soldiers. I have no idea how they are going to explain it, or whether they even will address previous lore.
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  10. #10
    Originally Posted by m4r-k7 Go to original post
    Possible, but as we can see Darius has an Assassin symbol on his outfit (this can also be seen in AC 2), so surely the "Assassins" or "The Brotherhood" must have had a symbol already, making me think that a group already existed, rather than lone soldiers. I have no idea how they are going to explain it, or whether they even will address previous lore.
    The obvious answer is that those statues we see in Monteriggioni were made in Italy and like real statues and paintings, they simply put contemporary symbols retroactively on the past, like how paintings in Renaissance set in Athens or Jerusalem tend to look like Italy.

    So when those Italian artists made sculptures of great Assassins, they put the A logo even if it was anachronistic. That would be the sophisticated answer were Ubisoft and Assassin's Creed still capable or deserving of sophistication after Unity and Syndicate.
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