Grab Reject needs to be more beneficial to the person who succeeds in doing so. | Forums

[Jasado]

It is WAY too lenient on the person grabbing. We all know about how easy it is for grab spamming individuals to ledge you simply from griefing with grab spam (because of the incredibly low delay from being countered), and the conditioning from having to respect the stupid cheese of it puts you in the position of "get ledged/wallsplat into heavy if you don't do grab reject again" or "eat a heavy for grabbing to not getting ledged/wallsplat into heavy anyways hahahaha".

Sometimes you expect a higher IQ or level of decency from someone after pushing off 2 to 3 grabs back to back, but they can just keep mashing grab half the time and still get you off that ledge or into a wall.

Hell, sometimes they can counter your follow up light to prevent that with their own light, depending on their char. Or parry your light.

From getting grab rejected. That's actually stupid. If your grab pressure gets rejected, the "respond" chip should move to you, not the other way around. There needs to be a slightly longer delay on the person being rejected, because there's too much free cheese from it currently. Contrast and compare when dealing with Raider (Legendary!), WAH LAWD, and Centurion (JUST dODGe It!!11!) - who have dangerous grapples you seriously need to respect in these situations.

I'm all for grabbing mindgames, but it's not a mindgame when mindlessly mashing even when countered properly is a viable option.

[Vordred]

yeah i have always said that the failing a GB comes with no cost. and most of the time they can just Try again before you can do anything.

personally i think instead of just pushing them off when you CGB, you should punch or hit them with the hilt/shaft of your weapon, giving them a brief stun effect.

[Mia.Nora]

From getting grab rejected. That's actually stupid. If your grab pressure gets rejected, the "respond" chip should move to you, not the other way around. There needs to be a slightly longer delay on the person being rejected, because there's too much free cheese from it currently. Contrast and compare when dealing with Raider (Legendary!), WAH LAWD, and Centurion (JUST dODGe It!!11!) - who have dangerous grapples you seriously need to respect in these situations.

Dude, how dare you mention Roman's baby's name like that.. shhhh

And yes, it is really pointless and annoying to CGB same guy 5 times in a row knowing that he can and will do it for a 6th time... Sadly it is too risky to try and do something else vs certain characters in certain locations, so we keep CGB until he gets bored.

[Antonioj26]

It is WAY too lenient on the person grabbing. We all know about how easy it is for grab spamming individuals to ledge you simply from griefing with grab spam (because of the incredibly low delay from being countered), and the conditioning from having to respect the stupid cheese of it puts you in the position of "get ledged/wallsplat into heavy if you don't do grab reject again" or "eat a heavy for grabbing to not getting ledged/wallsplat into heavy anyways hahahaha".

Sometimes you expect a higher IQ or level of decency from someone after pushing off 2 to 3 grabs back to back, but they can just keep mashing grab half the time and still get you off that ledge or into a wall.

Hell, sometimes they can counter your follow up light to prevent that with their own light, depending on their char. Or parry your light.

From getting grab rejected. That's actually stupid. If your grab pressure gets rejected, the "respond" chip should move to you, not the other way around. There needs to be a slightly longer delay on the person being rejected, because there's too much free cheese from it currently. Contrast and compare when dealing with Raider (Legendary!), WAH LAWD, and Centurion (JUST dODGe It!!11!) - who have dangerous grapples you seriously need to respect in these situations.

I'm all for grabbing mindgames, but it's not a mindgame when mindlessly mashing even when countered properly is a viable option.

We are trying to get away from the turtle meta not strengthen it. Hes already being punished by having his stamina being drained from failing and risking taking a light. If you are by a ledge and some guy is hungry for the grab then just keep hitting him with lights while you move positions, these types will just keep mashing it in a panic to get the ledge. They arent the type to get light parries off.

[Jasado]

We are trying to get away from the turtle meta not strengthen it. Hes already being punished by having his stamina being drained from failing and risking taking a light. If you are by a ledge and some guy is hungry for the grab then just keep hitting him with lights while you move positions, these types will just keep mashing it in a panic to get the ledge. They arent the type to get light parries off.

defending one instance of a grab =/= turtling.

Frankly, someone forcing you to stand there and exhaustively grab reject THEM is turtling. They are forcing you to stand in a precarious situation and simply do nothing but a non-aggressive action. It doesn't promote a meaningful exchange between both parties or move the fight along, so your response is inane and shallow.

Not an argument. Try again.

[Antonioj26]

defending one instance of a grab =/= turtling.

Frankly, someone forcing you to stand there and exhaustively grab reject THEM is turtling. They are forcing you to stand in a precarious situation and simply do nothing but a non-aggressive action. It doesn't promote a meaningful exchange between both parties or move the fight along, so your response is inane and shallow.

Not an argument. Try again.

They aren't forcing you though, just hit them. They can't parry you and gb at the same time. Sorry you are having a tough time with an easily avoidable situation but I guess I should have expected that from someone whose brain gets tricked by kenseis dash attack.

[CrunaCross]

cgb is just to easy to pull to even think of some sort of punish after GB was deflected. You know at release there was a shorter CGB window, but many couldn't handle it so they made the CGB way more generous, the way it was in the Beta. I also believe it's a bit too generous and the reaction time is very large. But if we include even some punish after cgb, the turtle meta would become even worse. You would not get punished only after every parry, but also after every cgb. The defense meta is bad as it is.

[Jasado]

They aren't forcing you though, just hit them. They can't parry you and gb at the same time. Sorry you are having a tough time with an easily avoidable situation but I guess I should have expected that from someone whose brain gets tricked by kenseis dash attack.

You are free to 1v1 me and prove that situation if that's the character assassination route you want to take, we can solve that pitiful pot shot attempt real fast.

You also clearly don't understand the fact that I already outlined your scenario. As the person by a wall or ledge, you are in the hot-seat to respond, even after grab rejecting, not THEM. They can simply do slight pauses and grabs after the first wave of spam doesn't work (which the point is, it is far more reward than risk, when you are obviously being read correctly. Dumb.) because you can't dodge, or you get grabbed. And you can't heavy, because you'll get parried, then grabbed. And you can't grab, because if it gets rejected, off the ledge you go, or closer to the wall you go, and then you're back to the same loop. Hell, even if you throw out a light, unless you're PK/Valk/Shinobi, you aren't safe after that exchange (if it doesn't get parried/blocked), because you're still backed to the wall/ledge. All you've done is a tad bit of damage and reset to at least neutral. Which means more grabs, because you're still in the response seat.

If your "answer" is to "just" guess right 10/10 times and kill someone purely with light attacks for over half a dozen exchanges between grab spam (notwithstanding the likelihood this is a multi-fight mode, so time to kill matters quite a lot) just because they are grab spamming you, the problem is the risk vs reward of spamming grab even after being countered, not whatever ad hoc rationalization you're coming up with.

[Jasado]

cgb is just to easy to pull to even think of some sort of punish after GB was deflected. You know at release there was a shorter CGB window, but many couldn't handle it so they made the CGB way more generous, the way it was in the Beta. I also believe it's a bit too generous and the reaction time is very large. But if we include even some punish after cgb, the turtle meta would become even worse. You would not get punished only after every parry, but also after every cgb. The defense meta is bad as it is.

All you have to do is lockout a rejected grabber from grabbing again for like 300ms. You are then promoted to do any other thing except spam.

It's less punish and more preventing a self-sustaining loop of "well, why WOULDN'T I do it again".

[Antonioj26]

You are free to 1v1 me and prove that situation if that's the character assassination route you want to take, we can solve that pitiful pot shot attempt real fast.

You also clearly don't understand the fact that I already outlined your scenario. As the person by a wall or ledge, you are in the hot-seat to respond, even after grab rejecting, not THEM. They can simply do slight pauses and grabs after the first wave of spam doesn't work (which the point is, it is far more reward than risk, when you are obviously being read correctly. Dumb.) because you can't dodge, or you get grabbed. And you can't heavy, because you'll get parried, then grabbed. And you can't grab, because if it gets rejected, off the ledge you go, or closer to the wall you go, and then you're back to the same loop. Hell, even if you throw out a light, unless you're PK/Valk/Shinobi, you aren't safe after that exchange (if it doesn't get parried/blocked), because you're still backed to the wall/ledge. All you've done is a tad bit of damage and reset to at least neutral. Which means more grabs, because you're still in the response seat.

If your "answer" is to "just" guess right 10/10 times and kill someone purely with light attacks for over half a dozen exchanges between grab spam (notwithstanding the likelihood this is a multi-fight mode, so time to kill matters quite a lot) just because they are grab spamming you, the problem is the risk vs reward of spamming grab even after being countered, not whatever ad hoc rationalization you're coming up with.

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