Thinking it over: WHY use HIDDEN STANCE at all?

**kweassa1** · 06-10-2017

A lot of ideas and discourse went back and forth with discussions concerning the Nobushi and her Hidden Stance, so I thought it might be a good idea to return to the most fundamental question of them all -- "Why should we use HS at all in the first place?"

As we all know, HS "feeds" off almost identical timing to most parries... and just as assassin class users ask a similar question -- [i]"Why should we use deflect mechanics at all, when parry wields better results?"[i] -- the same question holds valid for the HS. Yes, indeed, WHY should the Nobushi use the HS?

When you compare them side by side it becomes pretty evident that parry Hidden Stance doesn't offer all that much over parry when used as a defensive tool.

Parry
● absolutely stops enemy attack in a "superior" manner, disrupts flow of enemy attack and retakes initiative
● failed attempt could result to being hit, but as much, could result in just a block, or even an unexpected hit
● costs no stamina
● guaranteed damage in many forms, often heavy
● helpless against UB/UP skills that don't have designated attack direction

Hidden Stance
● evades opponent attack, cannot disrupt enemy assault, cannot regain initiative unless counter attack from HS succeeds
● failed attempt almost certainly leads to being hit
● costs hefty amounts of stamina
● no guaranteed damage
● evades most -- if not all -- forms of attacks, including UB/UP

If you directly compare it this way it offers a lot of insight into problems with HS.

Problem 1.It becomes pretty much evident that the only redeeming factor for HS that justifies the heavy stamina usage is with the fact that it can evade (probably) everything. However, this fact is often made null and void in certain timings -- particularly when you are in hit or block recovery frames where HS does not queue up and respond -- that HS becomes impossible to use. For example, when you are hit by the first attack of the light-light combo from most classes, HS fails to activate during hit recovery and your only option is to block. In many similar cases this becomes a problem when certain combos or attack patterns coming from an enemy, or MULTIPLE enemies, keep putting you into recovery frames either from hit or block, HS is effectively shut out from use.

Problem 2. Without a guaranteed attack, it's use as a defense move+counter attack move is extremely limited. Not only is it more dangerous to use than parry -- degrading its worth over a move which every class has as a basic skill -- there's really no point to use it at all unless you're facing heavy amounts of "in your face" UB spams. If you can HS the incoming move, then parrying it to stop opponent attacks, regain initiative yourself, and even land a hefty punish is much more rewarding and easier.

Then by default, I believe addressing the above two points would be what's needed for HS on a fundamental level, with the following pointers in mind:

1. The stamina use needs to be kept same
There is literally nothing more I would want than being able to follow up every single one of my attacks with HS to force the opponent to give pause to an opponent and make them feel uncomfortable by hiding the attack setup direction for my next move, to my heart's content. But evidently the DEFINING trait of HS is that it evades EVERYTHING. Everymove in game except for GBs, it grants you immunity.Therefore, unlike parry, the only trait for HS that is superior to parry should be a reminder to justify the stamina usage.

2. The use must be easier, more lenient
For many reasons currently HS is more difficulty to use than it should be. The unresponsive timing during gaurdswitch frames, the unresponsive timing during hit/block recoveries and etc. In short, if a block/parry can take a hit from a light and then defend yourself from a 2nd incoming light from a chain, then so must it be the same for HS. IT NEEDS to respond to any defensive situation as equally as any other defense skill.

3. Needs a guaranteed attack
It needs some form of guaranteed hit on a successful evade, while not large, or particularly damaging, something that makes it worthwhile, justifiable to use that big chunk of stamina to attempt a potentially more dangerous evasion move. It doesn't make sense to use up that much stamina and not be able to get any reliable results, because even if one evasion succeeds, unlike parry, the enemy attack will not stop. Then why in the world did we just evade that attack with HS and not just block or parry it?

Suggested Improvements

Addressing "Problem 1: Difficult of usage
● HS needs to be usable regardless of guardswitch frames -- cancel out guardswitching animation and immediately go into action
● HS needs to be able to queue up during hit/block recovery, and imemediately activate off when available
● HS needs to be able to canceled into a dodge

The first suggestion is for increased responsiveness in activation and absolutely crucial. The second is again, for increased response time during urgency. The third is to improve mobility at least up to a reasonable point to increase variety of options during both offensive and defensive use -- for example when fighting in 1v2 situation, evading 1st attack with HS, but it looks like you don't have a counter attack opportunity because 2nd opponent is incoming with attacks, hence skip into a dodge to evade the 2nd attack while parting distance from the 1st opponent... for example in attack situations, tricking the opponent to focus on the HS, and then skipping into a side dodge for a side-dodge attack.

Addressing "Problem 2: Need of guaranteed attacks"
● switch out the "jump kick" into the "spin kick" the Nobushi already has in her moveset

This one is tricky. How do you make a guaranteed attack move that is useful, but at the same time without making it as OP as other classes that have such moves -- for example the Shinobi kick that everyone hates so much? To this problem my suggestion is utilizing (a much cooler and appropriate) move from an animation sequence that already exists with the Nobushi. During a non-targeted heavy-heavy-heavy attack sequence against minions, the Nobushi whips out a fast and furious spin kick as a finisher against a minion.

My suggestion is only use the "jumpkick" move during normal chain combos such as heavy-jumpkick, but when it's a "kick" move used from HS, it uses this special attack animation. This is because a jump kick makes sense when during in normal attack chains where the opponent is at a certain distance from you, due to the long reach of the naginata -- however when using HS the opponent is attacking you, you are evading that attack in a split-second timing, and the ranges are much closer. In this case the jumpkick, even though a UB+UP move, is too slow and leisurely an action despite the urgency of the situation. In other words, when you evade an attack by the breadth of a hair with the HS, the jumpkick doesn't fit the situation.

What you need is a fast, immediate move to counter attack the opponent as soon as you evade the attack.

Therefore I am proposing the spin kick. It should be conceptually and animation-wise very similar to a GB-directional move the Shinobi has, as the shinobi uses that spin kick to hit someone and move him to the side he wants. Much similarly, When directly using the "kick" move from HS, the Nobushi will not do a jump kick, but instead a spin kick that is at the slowest 600ms, is UB+UP, and gains UI on top of it. It also stuns the opponent, causing a white-out briefly like other stuns, but in turn DOES NOT HAVE A GUARANTEED ATTACK as a follow up and has no damage.

Up to this point it may sound like the centurion legion kick, and some may think it might be OP, but I beg to differ.

Unlike the cent legion kick, this spinning kick requires a pre-setup in the form of HS, and therefore telegraphed much easier if you try to use it as an offensive move. Instead, at heart, it is a defensive counter attack. If you have evaded an attack from a long and slow heavy, you might have time to land a light attack as a counter attack... but what if the opponent like a shinobi or PK just deals in fast light-light attack? HS as we have it, becomes useless against such situations currently.

This, is what the "spin kick" suggestion is for. It is a defensive move against fast attackers that are overly aggressive and decide to keep approaching and overwhelm you with fast number of attacks. When the opponent overextends oneself like that, a successful HS-spin kick will be a reliable, immediate counter attack tool that takes a swipe at the opponent's head, stuns him, and pushes him back to prevent him from overwhelming you with light spams or UB spams (like the centurion) or such.

These are the most current incarnation of suggestions I can make for the Nobush and her Hidden Stance.

(ps) New forum account. Old one ran into a nasty spam filter problem which even the mods couldn't clear

**Y_Shrewditch** · 06-10-2017