1. #21
    VEGASTRASH's Avatar Senior Member
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    Ok...we will do 6 then.
    MP is a small part of Trials...I'm guessing it always will be...regardless of what is done. To me, the game is about building and beating your previous time. I'm all for a great MP experience, but 6,8, or 20 will not matter.
    Smaller player count is more personal...but I like to keep my distance from game geeks and slaughter the field whenever possible. I save my intimate moments in life for certain sites on the web and an occasional interaction with a female.
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  2. #22
    Devils_Demon's Avatar Member
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    I just wanna know why I suck at mp but can be a beast in sp. Seriously, as soon as I get into an mp match it's like a skill switch in my brain gets switched to the off position.

    Anyway, mp definitely needs a lot of work. As it is now it feels like mp is only there for testing tracks before they get published.
    There's no sense of progression in mp. Whether I win or lose I don't really care because it's pointless.
    Treat mp like any other mp game. Have unlocks and levels. Let us unlock cosmetic gear for our rider and bike by advancing through the ranks. Give us our own stat page with wins/losses etc.
    Trials at it's core is about chasing your pb and moving up in the leaderboard. Bring that same core into mp. Have mp leaderboards, ghosts of friends (whether they're in the mp session with you or not), and basically just make it more about competition and less about "just a quick laugh between a group of friends".

    As for local mp, that needs even more work. Respawning at cp if you fall behind is extremely unfair if you're in the lead. It's impossible to have a proper race with someone.
    Split screen is obvious answer.
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  3. #23
    I ShinFenix I's Avatar Member
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    I think it would be great to RL ( Redlynx ) to get some inspiration from RL ( Rocket League ) Muliplayer like the ranking système to know exaclty the lvl of your opponents and to motivate people to have a better rank with a reward at the end of a season.
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  4. #24
    UbiSkyBear's Avatar Community Manager
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    Thanks to everyone for all the great comments and suggestions so far. We’ll answer what we can, others we might revisit after we’ve had some time to discuss more thoroughly with the team.
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  5. #25
    UbiSkyBear's Avatar Community Manager
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    Originally Posted by fleskeknoke Go to original post
    I hope this doesn't mean that there will be no update in how the community can share tracks for testing in the future.

    I hope for a choice when publishing a track to either publish it to standard TC or to publish it to a WIP-feed, if you choose the WIP-feed you should also get the opportunity to create a password.

    That way you can choose to make the track available to all, or only a select group who knows the password. A padlock icon on the tracks in the WIP-feed that is password protected should make
    this a painless experience.

    Certainly much more fluid than inviting to a multiplayer, getting stuck downloading UGC tracks in the hundreds etc.

    Really hope redlynx will look into a better way for us to test tracks.
    We have looked into other options for builders to test tracks. A system like the one you propose is not an easy thing to implement into track sharing and will take time to develop. We discussed something like this for Fusion but were not able to free the time from the developers needed to make it happen. We continue to discuss features like this when we talk about track sharing but there are many aspects of a Trials game that will take priority over it. While we would also like some type of feature like this we cannot promise any changes to how tracks are shared.
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  6. #26
    UbiSkyBear's Avatar Community Manager
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    Originally Posted by RidingMower Go to original post
    Main game and multiplayer Leader board: I would like to see how I am ranked to others by way of the donkey and also each individual ride. I also feel the addition of Seasons to the L.B. was making more of a hassle. The Seasons added lots of pages to shuffle with the longer it goes on.
    We love leaderboards and improving the LB experience is something we think about a lot.

    Originally Posted by RidingMower Go to original post
    Make it user friendly, easy to navigate the menu and easy to invite friends: Not much else you can do. It's either a great feature of the game to enjoy, or it's just not the Persons' preference to play at that moment in time, if ever. Just have it available at their convenience.
    Thanks for the suggestion on this too. The usability of menus is definitely something we talk a lot about as well.
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  7. #27
    UbiSkyBear's Avatar Community Manager
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    Originally Posted by VEGASTRASH Go to original post
    Different modes would be welcomed. I know the player base isn't that large for MP, but something a little different possibly.
    2 vs. 2 mode, where the control switches each checkpoint.
    A bracket style tournament.
    A very poor rider gets a small head start based on seconds behind in the last race.
    Bike switch, where the bike changes each race...but everyone gets the same one.
    Tail on fire, like the skill game...you get as far as you can while on fire.
    Acorn entry...everyone puts up X amount and the first 2 get all.
    There are much better ideas I haven't just named...I'm sure the team could think up something decent.

    Having the 1st lane view was a great addition to Fusion. Same for 8 lanes. I'd prefer 10, but mainly to have a good race for everyone. The greater the number, the better chance many will have close race with someone. Far too often I wouldn't have competitive matches.

    Off topic note: In HD and Evo the dynamic lighting was much better...why? In Fusion it appears like many dynamic shadows are extremely pixelated and stopped down to 15fps. Evo/HD didn't have this issue.
    As we discussed in the article including more modes in public multiplayer is a big challenge for matchmaking so we’re likely to continue with our focus on a single public mode that is all about pure competition. These more “fun modes” are the types of things we think about when discussing private multiplayer. Any new mode that requires new systems or changes to the basic way the game works, a 2v2 with switching controls for example, also takes a lot more time to develop, test and polish so there is a lot to consider. We’re happy you like some of the improvements we made with multiplayer in Fusion. As this discussion is about multiplayer we’re only focusing on multiplayer responses at this time.
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  8. #28
    UbiSkyBear's Avatar Community Manager
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    Originally Posted by Psyhodelik Go to original post
    Two thing that will be very cool for me on multiplayer is:

    The possibility to search and find track directly trough the multiplayer and not only based on my favorite list.

    A trackmania mode where we can run a track during 5 minutes and keep the best time. It's one of the best multiplayer mode for this kind of game for me.
    Thanks for the suggestions. These are both cool ideas and things the team has discussed.
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  9. #29
    Pre-amble
    Multiplayer modes: love 'em all. But most of my experience is with private lobby online multiplayer. For many months I ran a weekly private lobby every Wednesday evening for a bunch of PS4 players. We had a lot of fun and laughed a lot (one time uncontrollably; some of us nearly asphyxiated). This may colour my views somewhat. Hopefully usefully so.

    I should point out for the record that I'm not very good at this game. Sure, I'm level 137 and have some platinum medals but that's from sheer red-faced persistence. I still have yet to complete any track harder than Greater Crater. Many of my private online competitors are of a similar level. I suspect we see things a bit differently from the ninjas.


    Private online multiplayer
    Seriously great fun. Line up some tracks, optionally permute the settings to do things like reduce gravity, make bikes invisible, force everyone to use the donkey, set riders on fire or make the bikes overpowered. Or all of those together. If you've never really tried it, you should - it even kinda works for one player. A group of friends came together every week to play maybe three or four 'playlists' of eight tracks at a time in hilarious competition.

    Trials Fusion doesn't make this as easy as it could.

    I used to do my research each week, seeking out new UGC that looked fun, testing it to make sure I could complete it without too many faults, making sure the creator thought to include checkpoints and seeing if there were any interesting combinations of those user settings that resulted in good races. A small difference to bike power or gravity can completely change the optimum driving lines - or render some tracks much more difficult, even impossible. Some single-player tracks work well enough alone but lag to the point of unplayability when multiple ghosts are present.

    On the other hand some big differences can change a track completely. A common trick is to set gravity close to zero and allow bailout finishes. Then - for a straight track - the quickest (and often only) way to finish is to bailout from the start line and fly your rider through the obstacle course, trying not to fly over the top of the finish-line's collision detection. This works best for tracks with ceilings, for obvious reasons, and can be a complete hoot. Alas the game's camera just doesn't cope very well with this mode of play in spectator mode, but that can be part of the fun. Some people have made no-grav tracks specifically for this mode of play.

    I also spent a happy afternoon once determining that someone of my ability could successfully negotiate one of the built-in XSC tracks (probably Pigeons & Squirrels) with gravity set to 300% on all of the available bikes (disclaimer: this was before the Donkey and Unicorn were introduced to the game), with comical appearance. So I could add that to our multiplayer playlist, and it was a lark. Proper preparation in advance made for a fun evening but was quite time-consuming.

    So what would I like to see, improvement-wise?
    • The ability to save playlists of tracks to play - the set-up between rounds always seemed to take too long, adding individual tracks from a bulging and un-ordered favourites list; thank heavens for lively party chat while I went through that.
    • ...So a way to sort the favourites list might be nice...
    • The ability to save the combination of track and custom settings as a single 'favourite' - take the example of Pigeons & Squirrels @ 300% gravity. I'd probably need a custom setting just for that instance (would be useless on most tracks) perhaps also limiting the bikes available to the fun/capable ones. Even more awesome if I can add a little descriptive text to each combo to identify it more easily or just amuse my friends. I used to have a notebook around here full of scribbled notes of track/setting combos that worked well. I can't find it. All that research lost.
    • Naturally I'd then want to be able to save a named playlist of combined tracks-and-settings. Would make setting up each round so much quicker - if prepared in advance.
    • If I create a fun combo or full playlist, how about being able to easily share it? At one point I might have tested high-gravity on other XSC tracks but it was very time-consuming. How awesome if someone else can tell you what ideas work?
    • Spectator mode, usually noticed on completing a track before your mates (or faulting too many times) is somewhat held to ransom by customised cameras. There are some lovely tracks that become very boring in spectator mode because the camera isn't following the rider. And the aforermentioned low-grav launch-and-fly option seems to break the spectator mode it its own unique way . It would be nice to be able to override those custom cameras or even just see what your opponent is actually seeing while they continue to play.
    • Not all tracks have podiums. I try to end a playlist with one I know does (and once snuck in a hand-made comical podium - yes you can add fourth, fifth, sixth, etc.), but how about a generic podium where a level has none?
    • Probably beyond the capabilities of the current Trials engine but split-screen online multiplayer would be a joy for those people who like to couch co-op. Even an online version of 4-player local multiplayer with support for couch competition at one or more ends would be nice to have.
    • I whole-heartedly approve of PBs being achieved while on multiplayer (using vanilla settings; public or private). I feel like I have an amazing run now and again and am frustrated that it can't update my career mode times/medals. I can't even see how it compares to my best. If a player comes last but 'PB' flashes up for all to see, that player can take a little pride in their achievement.
    • People invited to a session but unable to start on time should still be able to join as spectators.
    • The penalty for a DNF in a casual game - no points at all - seems a little harsh in the context of a balanced leaderboard. How about some points based on furthest point/checkpoint reached?
    • I'm naturally in favour of more customisable options. How about a Random Bike option? Either everyone gets the exact same random bike or everyone just gets one chosen for them at random - probably best if it takes into account the 'allowed' bikes elsewhere in the custom settings (I play local MP with friends kids whereby we just hold a directional button down during the bike selection step). How about giving health points to the bikes? A cosmetic change like time of day or fog distance/tint can add variety to proceedings (even if it wouldn't necessarily work well for every track). Turbine Terror might feel fresh in the dark.
    • It would be nice if the split-second timings at the end of the race were shown for a little longer before shuffling into total points order. Those split-second victories are worth a little extra time for bragging rights. Maybe the game could even highlight really close pairs of riders.
    • Finally I'd like to be able to test stuff as a single player without necessarily having to go online and create a private lobby. If I want to play any of the XSC tracks or ride an invisible unicorn through Shear Pressure, I can only do that 'online'.



    Local multiplayer
    As mentioned above, it would be cool if this worked across a network. It's a different game to online MP. Custom options would be AWESOME.

    However a couple of things to address...

    If you're in a tight race and you crash between the final checkpoint and the finish-line, you automatically DNF with no points. This is horribly unfair. It also happens very frequently, especially when someone forgets to turn on bailout finishes.

    Oh and there's one built-in track, sorry, can't remember the name (Edit: it's Rooftop Runners), where you fall through a vertical finish line and it doesn't always register the player finishing. Very frustrating when you cross the line first but the game gives you a DNF instead.

    There seem to be too many occasions where one player goes out in front, usually on a Panda, and has gone several metres at speed past a checkpoint before the other players are reset to that checkpoint at a standstill. You can easily get into a vicious cycle of one player barrelling through multiple checkpoints knocking out all opponents over and again.



    Tournaments
    This hasn't had any attention; it's not really MP but it straddles the line between MP and SP. An asynchronous competition. It also seems woefully underused. Not entirely surprising, since the variety of tournaments seems extremely limited and for the more casual players (including me) the majority of events include Hard tracks. How many faults I make on a Hard track on any given run seems to be a random number between about 10 and 200, so that's off-putting. As elsewhere stated I can't even complete an Extreme track.

    And given that there are so few different tournaments, why not retain best-time ghosts across tournaments? At least then I could race against friends who partook of, say, Swans and Berries last month even if they're not playing now.

    With the right incentive I think there's a good case for 'track of the day', along similar lines to the tournaments. Every day you have one day to set the best time (or score) on a selected track; compare your results with your friends list. Include some wacky reimagining of tracks using custom options and bike restrictions, because Dirt Derby is a different track at 50% gravity and 75% engine power. And reversed controls. With extra boost for performing tricks. And accelerator permanently on. (In case you haven't played much private online MP, these are all tweakable options.)


    Other thoughts
    Plenty of comments above about the number of players. For me, in my private online MP bubble, the more the merrier, as long as the engine can handle it. There were plenty of times that people had to miss out because I already had 8 willing contestants. Give me 16, even if that means XSC riders sharing lanes with ghosts. Or let me add SuperCross tracks to my online MP playlist with two riders per lane. Sacrifice some visuals if need be, when I'm having fun, I don't care.

    And actually, as someone who's not so good at the game, I like my public MP to have more players in it too. When you're mediocre it's nice to have other mediocre people to compete against. The fewer players there are in a session the more likely I am to come last.

    There might be more multiplayer tracks on Track Central if the editor included a symmetry tool that allowed me to place 8 copies of an object simultaneously on to each of the 8 driving lines. (Or indeed 4 on to each of the 4; or 4 across 8, depending on the lane width, etc.) Just saying. Yeah, a good creator may want to vary things up here and there, but it's a great way to get the driving line set up to begin with.


    If you want to get more people playing multiplayer, why not give it away? Create a version of the game that includes only the public MP (and perhaps tournaments) by default, allow people to pay to unlock the full career mode/editor/track central/acorns. Then either give this cut-down MP version away free or stick it on Games With Gold and PlayStation Plus and Humble Monthly or equivalent. Just an idea...
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  10. #30
    RidingMower's Avatar Member
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    Originally Posted by QuietlyWrong Go to original post
    When you're mediocre it's nice to have other mediocre people to compete against. The fewer players there are in a session the more likely I am to come last.
    Hello QuietlyWrong

    You made a very nice write up and did a really good at explaining it all. I uphold your input to the multiplayer aspect in high regards as you have invested towards this experiences plenty. Something I find unique in this case is the scenarios that you describe. Especially to the quoted above. That might be how you perceive it occurring in the way Fusion places players against each other. The setup of pairing players in Fusion's online Multi-player races are not balanced respectively.

    I'm hoping they make it so that your quickest time on the tracks about to be played get added together.

    *Example: Your fastest time on the tracks picked for playing online multiplayer at that moment.

    Track Uno: 25.025 seconds
    Track Dos: 20.002 seconds
    Track Tre: 32.102 seconds
    +
    -----------------------------
    77.129 seconds

    You will be matched with Five other players with the closest time to your time.

    You could be the fastest of those Five other players, or you could be the slowest of that. It is a fair deal because you will always with others in that have the closest skill level to your own.

    It's going to continually help a player push their skills. As they get faster, it gets more competitive and will help to further their skill. You'll always be paired with other players sharing your skill level.

    When the lobby has "X" amount of players in Que, (let's say 5,000) and the game has already determined 3 tracks to have these players play for that minute in time. The server checks the players LB positions and adds their respected times to a total number for each player. That is then compared to allow the fastest player to be matched with the next fastest player, and continues in that order with the entire Que.

    I'm still firm on the six players max part of online multiplayer as for some reason. Intuition with it taking off at that number. Plus seeing the complexity bar for building getting a great benefit and knowing creators will be able to create tracks with less drain towards that complexity meter.
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