Shugoki suggestions from a seasoned player | Forums

[red_ryanmck]

Right, so I've been a shugoki main since the game fully released, and quite literally he's the only character i play in the game(currently rocking a rep 20 shugoki fully geared). now I've dedicated a lot of hours into getting my own unique play style for the character because well...he is quite difficult to be skilled with, though he is quite easy to be a massive cheese ball with, as seen in plenty of forum arguments, youtube videos, and even my own personal playtime. early on the shugoki character forsure had some pretty "overpowered" moves i will admit, the oni charge knock down free heavy move was hilariously easy and cheesy but...it did force players to be careful about using a turtle play style against him because of it, a player would have to play aggressive and keep the pressure on to be able to beat the shugoki which i did see when versing skilled players who weren't scared of getting in the characters face, which respectively won them the fight. now to put in perspective how overpowered the character was early game in the right hands i personally had a 3.0-4.0 k/d for all game modes with this character and an 80% win percentage all around (at this time the crazy gear stat bonuses and insane revenge builds where god tier thank you devs for fixing this). finally some needed fixes came into effect, the most notable fixes where the oni charge being able to be activated in any direction at any moment while running, fair enough that was pretty broken. another interesting "fix"/nerf that i noticed was when they removed the knockdown effect of the oni charge all together, now i wasn't overly bummed about this change...untill i started playing again. on a side note i re watched the tutorial video on shugoki thats in the game and by no surprise the video still shows the shugoki being able to use the charge and it knocking down the enemy...kinda funny kinda lazy but thats just being nit picky.


anyways, so what I've noticed is that the character didn't get anything to compensate for the loss of shugokis main opener.(which was strange because every other character that has had a nerf has had something else added to compensate for the nerf) this attack is primarily used to cheese someone unsuspecting off into an environmental kill now because you cannot follow up with any sort of attack after the fact, if anything using this anywhere BUT a cheese spot is asking for a free attack on you.

how to fix this...ok so i understand removing the knockdown effect for said charge BUT how the nerf should of went was if the enemy is out of stamina the charge would have the knockdown effect, and if the enemy still has stamina the charge would just shrug them out of the way as it does currently.
Also i noticed the charge doesn't push enemy's into walls if you charge them into one they kinda just look like they slip and slide across walls laughing at your inferior attempt to wall knock them, which is very strange since every other character with a similar attack to the headbut move has wall knockback and this really limits his already extremely limited moveset.at least this would allow for a light attack follow up at the bare minimum. obviously i can see the spam potential of this move but the devs could allow for grace time or slower follow ups so it wouldn't have spam potential.

Another interesting and rather confusing at least for myself is the fact that your headbut move also doesn't knock enemy's into walls OR even knock people off into evironmental kills either. its pretty funny to watch as your stunned opponent gets saved by an invisible wall when they clearly are chris angel hovering over a ledge or casually giving themselves back rubs with spikes and whatnot when clearly they should've fell to their death or become swiss cheese.

how to fix this...(as if it isn't obvious) allow the headbut move to knock into walls and off ledges, because EVERY other characters moves that act the same as shugokis headbut can do environmental kills and wall knockbacks. this at least would bring the shugoki back up to par with the rest of the current characters. again i can see the spam potential for this but with giving grace time and slower follow ups could prevent the spam potential but I'm sure the devs would have some clever ideas for preventing this.

with the new season out and the crazy new characters out the shugoki is lagging behind everyone else (same with conquer) the hilariously bad dodge move and poor stamina for the character make versing these new stamina drainers and unblockable attack legends make it a tough fight even for veteran players like myself, defiantly not impossible but a good challenge none the less if you are going against anyone that knows what they are doing.

cheers guys, hopefully the devs can give some insight into why these simple attack inputs weren't added, maybe an oversight? but this is just a opinion from a dedicated fan who wants nothing more than to see this game and community to thrive, so take this opinion with a grain of salt I'm sure not everyone will agree with this but these small things have been bugging me for a while and everyone I've talked to who has used or even mains this character agrees that it feels like the character is clearly missing obvious moves as mentioned above. much love!

[Shugoki_Hug]

Yeah, they nerfed that charge too much. I like the knock down of an exhausted opponent and the ability to wall stun.

I would like to see the Demon's Embrace to heal when you crack their back and not on the dropping of the opponent, so you can tank out the long animation afterwards. I can't tell you how many times I've died after 1 hitting someone only to be killed before I drop the lifeless body. Maybe take away his extra damage after the shield drops or lower it. I feel like with the addition of Defense Penetration the extra damage we take is kinda lame. Maybe speed up his gb animation or the time it takes to charge(just a tiny bit) the unblockable.

[ATBallZ88]

I love the Shoguki, and have to agree that the nerf went too far and the headbutt needs to be twerked to behave like every other character. The Oni charge was supposed to be a move where the fat man turns himself into a human wrecking ball and knocks down whatever he runs into like bowling pins. The nerf essentially just turned that into a move strictly for draining your own stamina and leaving you open to getting smacked a bunch of times. Since they removed the knockdown effect, I think it would be better to just completely revamp the move altogether and change it. Rather than the oni charge being a sprint maneuver, I think it should be changed into something similar to the Conqueror's shield bash technique, where rather than charging forward like a mad bull, he just jumps forward a small bit to sumo belly bump his targeted opponent, from a sprint it should knock them over, and from standing it should just knock them backward a bit, just like the Conq SB techniques. I feel a change like this would put him back on par with other characters rather than being so far behind. But I don't want the belly bump technique to be spammable to the extent the Conq SB is, idk, maybe make it activatable from a forward/side dash yes but in combat use an operation similar to the Valkyrie's shield tackle after a combo finisher heavy. This would give him some variety to his combos as well.

E.G.
To headbutt: Light into headbutt or heavy into headbutt.
To Belly Bump: Light (hits) into heavy (blocked or hit) into belly bump or heavy into heavy (blocked or hit) into belly bump

[RLTygurr]

Although I agree the Shugoki needs more than he currently has, I don't think changes to the Oni Charge are the right way to go.

Have you ever played against good Warlord players who, as soon as you're out of stamina, will unlock and run around to force a 50/50 with their shield charge (which knocks you down if you're out of stamina, which I think is stupidly powerful on an already powerful character) or a guard break, or a zone attack. He literally has 3 options.

The Oni Charge isn't in a good place because currently it just doesn't do much unless your opponent is practically standing on a ledge. Maybe if the stamina drain was much higher, it could be balanced. But currently there's only a few characters who can really benefit from draining their opponent's stamina, primarily people with 50/50 moves (i.e. Warden, Warlord, Centurion, Shinobi). So maybe a fix to exhaustion is more needed, and Shugoki could benefit directly from that because of his Oni Charge draining a bit of stamina and his headbutt practically nuking an opponent's stamina pool.

Heavier characters are designed to drain their opponent's stamina, but right now it doesn't accomplish much for half of those characters since the enemy can just block or cgb.

[TSCDescon]

Oni Charge was design to knock down.

I thought For Honor is going for realism, then the charge should cause a knock down.

Logically speaking, If a 6ft tall 300+ lbs guy running at you and bumps onto you, of course you will fall to the ground.

I really like the idea of Oni Charge only knock down OOS opponent, which is kinda okayish, in terms of realism.

Oni Charge should not cause stamina damage at all whatsoever because it causes a knock down.

And increasing the stamina cost of Oni Charge is not a good idea also because all his strong moves use a high amount of stamina.

For example: If you manage to OOS you opponent, you're most likely at half stamina already because light > headbutt also use a lot of stamina. To increase the stamina cost on charge, you will probably at zero stamina by the time you land a free heavy. Don't forget that the startup on Oni Charge is nerf as well to 400ms startup. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Shugoki in his current state, has trouble punishing OOS opponent.

[Rahnzan]

Logically speaking, If a 6ft tall 300+ lbs guy running at you and bumps onto you, of course you will fall to the ground.

More like 8 foot tall quarter-ton monstrosity. The minions are likely 5 and a half feet tall. He's almost twice that and crouching.

[nyrue]

first off your not being picky, those fight videos teach new players how too play, they need to be updated accordingly, second I don't play shugoki he is the only character I don't play but, I feel for you, this is just another example of ubisofts ineptitude, what they should have done was nerfed the active frames of the charge so that, the knock down doesn't happen at start up but rather during early mid charge, the same changes could be applied to WL as well

[Klingentaenz3r]

Shugoki in his current state, has trouble punishing OOS opponent.

true but so do many others since it's hard to catch up with sb that backs away and turtles up until stamina is regained again. There are of course some ways to get a closer more quickly than just dashing or walking forward for a Goki too but on the other hand I believe the Shugokis playstyle lies more in the nature of fending of approaching opponents and trading blows with them (therefore he has the hyper armor and to get his hyper armor back after it is removed he needs distance and some cooldown time in the fight). The OOS punishment happens when opponents get cornered and tend to be caught dodging out on attack approaches (feints).

I think mostly the Shogoki is fine, he might use some additional moves or combos though.

I am not a fan of the idea to improve the headbutt to the standard of other shoves/bashes and .. headbutts. It would make the Shugoki easily overpowered. Why you ask? The headbutt is not only lightning quick it is also guaranteed. It consumes a massive amount of stamina and knocks people back for quite some distance. So in that szenario alone it would be really easy to cheese people by letting them fall from ledges after hitting a quick light without the opponent being able to dodge.
The second and even more important point is that it would have the same properties as the other bashes in revenge mode which means those headbutts would put everybody on the ground. Big No from me.
The design as it is is quite fine since it achieves what you really need: Space and a small chance to breathe as the opponent has to think twice if he wants to attack right away again since he is low on stamina and a parry or another headbutt could get him out of stamina next.

What needs tweaking I think is the really strange queuing system. It happens so often that my Shugoki throws out something that I don't even recall having entered at all. Also I often have troubles to pull some feints off with the unblockable (which I read is quite intended since Ubisoft wants you to commit to it) and the zone attack.

This and the awful recovery or buggy guard/parry queue provided me plenty of unnecessary deaths. Would be nice to see improvement on that front

A knockdown ability on Oni's Charge on OOS opponents would be welcome and I believe quite fitting. Adding the possibility for a wallstun on a Charge on Not OOS opponents sounds really good but maybe then again too good since the result of a wallstun is in interiors basically quite similar to that of a knockdown -> free heavy for the shugoki, free top heavy for everyone else with the only difference that in ideal distance on a knockdown an ally could perform maybe multiple hits on an opponent on the ground. So I kind of understand why this was not given after removing the knockdown effect.

[Daeyrat]

Maybe to address balance and realism, Oni Charge could knock down only opponents right in front of him. Specific hitbox doing the stuff.