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I play all characters (even if not in MM I do in customs), with orochi being one of the top 5 I mess around with. I generally fight higher tier people with pretty good success. Here are just some of my thoughts on him.
I know some think storm rush should have more utilization, but it's honestly really powerful and relatively safe. You can cancel your rush on the back step or even while you're running (into gb at that) so if you get retaliated against, it was your own miscalculation. It rewards a heavy and the double top light if they weren't previously blocking there. Sure you probably shouldn't spam it all game, but it certainly has its uses. I even see it pulled off in tourneys every so often.
Riptide does feel a little weak, but I just think it needs a little more viability in what I see as its main usage which would be punishing unblockables, like cent kick and such. I think it would need a little further back step distance to punish attacks like shinobi kick without being hit all the way in your back step. There really isn't an incentive to use it over parry on regular attacks since it carries way more risk for not really any different or less reward, adding on to why I think it's for unblockables. I think the ability to feint it would be a little strong, as I think I could see it being spammed out of GB distance. I could be wrong on that, but I guess actual playing would help show that or not. An additional idea would be to give riptide I frames to unblockables as opposed to giving it extra step back (for unforeseen problems).
I'm with most others on thinking that his side lights should maybe be sped up by a 100ms or so. Just make them a tiny bit harder to react to. He'd need it if flicker was fixed. Maybe make the light attack combo a tiny bit faster as its pretty difficult to pull off and add extra damage to landing the last one. Top lights are almost exclusively landed anyway.
His zone feels fine, the speed of it adds to his viable moves and the range isn't crazy. Fixing flicker would make it weaker but it still would be ok. Some of my other friends think it should be more punishable but that would severely slow down and weaken the roach. His basic light and opener game would be like warden except with no unblockables.
I think his dashing top light should be a tiny bit faster, as it is the easiest deflect and parry bait in the world.
Dashing side lights feel right where they are supposed to be.
Deflects are very rewarding with options upon getting them, very useful tool.
I think I touched all the bases on him. He's not currently weak by any means, just not top tier.
Senior Member
Member
I don't think original intention of Orochi ZA was to chain it in combos, at least for fighting 1v1, so you need tools more valuables than top light to ZA, but something already said.
Deflect light is useless, don't mind how much damage to put into it. Superior block do same job as orochi defelct in a better way, even without UB (has no sense in superior block attacks)
In fact, i don't know why dodge give free gb in first place. If you time your dodge, no damage, if not timed, you take the attack, I don't understand why dodge has a so high punish, except for berserker and shinobi, but for orochi (i don't use pk enough to say a think about it) it has no sense. As I said in other posts, superior block of valk or WL works better for me to riposte like Orochi should do.
A lot of people ar asking to add bleed to deflect to make it valuable. That's a crap (no offense). Valk have counter-attack with bleed and nobody use it. It has the same problem: Too risk for too low reward.
Bleed only works with heroes that can spam it, like nobushi or PK, make a little bleed time to time is useless. If you can stack a lot of bleed you can go and wait for enemy to die, If You can only do a bit of bleed, the most probably you get is your enemy die right after you. Also, bleed doesn't seem to fit to Orochi for me. In fact, sharping blade doesn't like to me a lot, I would prefer punch through, one of the most powerful feats in the game, for my likes which would be a very useful to orochi against turtling. That's other thing i'm willing to see with chip damage changes
Member
Just remember that in Warriors Den May 18 ( I can be worng in date) was said Warlord is the standard in hero perfomance, so every hero would be buffed to that level. Not only Orochi, but orochi, with many other heroes, are clearly below that levelOriginally Posted by Tyrjo Go to original post
Senior Member
The problem with Orochi is the same as the problem with Berserker and Kensei and Nobushi and Conqueror and everybody else - the relative strength and safety of defence completely neuters their offensive options and makes them incredibly predictable and punishable as a result.
Just hurry up and put chip damage in - that will solve a majority of the issues with this game. Other stuff needs altering too but that alone will make a bunch of attacks more viable and enable a plethora of mind games.
Junior Member
I find that whenever i'm playing Orochi (mainly) or other reflex stance characters, i can't roll when i unlock from my opponent until the guard has reset. this is very annoying because whenever i'm in a gank situation i find that i can't roll and therefore end up getting whaled on, losing the majority of my health. I'm not sure if this is purposefully in the game, but either way i think that this should be looked at.
Member
I haven't noted that until you said. With other character I usually don't need to disengage, but you are right. It has to be look intoOriginally Posted by Pisza2016 Go to original post
Senior Member
Well, considering his role, I suggest the following:
Side lights are too easy to parry - slight adjustment would be welcome.
More utility and usability for Stormrush - skill itself is great and people already occasionally use it .. but it simply could be more.
What is Riptide? Define it's role.
Like: Should counter unblockables - make it fast, give some invincibility-frames, make it a severe punish that can still fail if you time it wrong, make it cost a lot of stamina on activation.
Alternatively: Orochi just got a opener! Step back let player initiate an ultra-fast delayable / charge-able light attack from the direction of their choosing that you can chain into any chains last hit. How to counter? Just use a fast attack when he does his step back or try to trade. But make dodging "almost" impossible unless timed very well.
That is just some ideas. Orochi isn't bad, but playing him on higher level is incredibly boring due to his moveset being so severly limited.
Member
* What about fusioning storm rush and Riptide strike into a charged attack with different outcomes depending on the charge?
Make the Orochi dash backward and hold the position he used to hold when about to perform an actual storm rush, but then allows to change guard while holding this position.
If he puts his guard either on right or left he's going to perform an storm rush, and if he put is guard on top he's going to perform and riptide strike.
Then holding a certain amount of time in the position will charge his attack. A fully charged riptide strike would make it deals more damage, unblockable and give orochi hyper armor; while a fully charged strom rush would make the rush deals more damage and achieved at a teleportation-like speed to make him able to punish harder and be an actuall assasin.
Plus, this move should be able to be hard cancelled and soft cancel with a dodge.
In order to balance make it so that, once fully charged, holding the position consume stamina.
*Also, make it so base non charged riptide strike is faster, in order to make it an actual viable counter attack move,.
*Plus, add a heavy chain finisher to the ligh light combo, to add more mix up options with a potential heavy cancel.
*Orochi should be able to connect a dodge with a gb just like the kensei imo.
*Deflecting isn't viable. It's usually harder to perform than a parry and yet gives less guaranted damage than an actual parry. That's quite dumb. In the actual game it still kinda works cuz people are surprised to see a Orochi deflecting but when they aren't the move becomes 100% useless.
Senior Member
Just hope they don't buff the damage ... I would be for more agility, feint possibilities and ZA in both sides with less stamina cost, but having a 60kg (armor included) dude with his katana causing more damage, then a Lawbringer with his halberd or a Raider with that giant Daneaxe sounds ridiculous!
Also having unblockables is not proper!
Assassins are no heavy-hitters!
They shine out with high DPS and NOT by pure force
