Junior Member
I see a lot of great options here for improving the orochi, but I wanted to throw some crazier options into the conversation. Giving the orochi the ability to feint a dodge could help improve the orochi in the way that buffs counterattacking (not sure if this is important, but that seems to be the way the orochi was designed). Dodging an attack adds elements of risk because you are vulnerable to a guard break; however if the dodge can be feinted fast enough then it would allow orochi to be protected from guard breaks by so that orochi can focus more on deflects and counterattacking. Additionally, the orochi would benefit from buffs to deflects in general would help the orochi. If the stamina cost were removed or if deflects rewarded some level of stamina gain, then all assassins would have to be judicious in choosing to deflect versus parrying.
These ideas are just to cover some elements that I did not find skimming the current suggestions; I just wanted to add something new for consideration in case the developers wante to buff the orochi in a way that is conducive to counterattacking.
Member
Giving Orochi faster side lights would definitely make him better but I don't think he should get it. Yeah, a lot of people already have 500ms lights which is specifically why Orochi shouldn't get it. The various buffs should emphasize the moves that make the heroes unique not make them viable in the same way. Making top lights, an iconic Orochi move, worse to make him a worse PK with his lights defeats the purpose of having a varied cast. Orochi right is limited in close range to a high damage top light combo and zone attack which is unique. I'd prefer that part of his identity be kept intact even if it's not optimal and in exchange buff up his other iconic moves, specifically Storm Rush but also Riptide and the deflects.
Junior Member
Orochi can't open up a defensive player that only blocks. In my opinion this is his greatest weakness. Give him some tools!
He is limited to his top attacks and his zone, this makes him calculable. Especially when he fights against wardens.
I suggest to speed up his sideattacks both havy and light. maybe the second light side is also guaranteed if the first one hits
Riptide needs a rework. Its still a very risky move and almost nobody uses it. If it has hyper armor, we will be able to trade dmg but it will be still easy to parry. let it be cancelable.
Hurrican blast should allow an exicution because its a heavy!
Member
Something that wasn't mentioned so far in this thread:
Faster running attack.
While is a good thing that assassins have slow running attack to compensate the faster walk speed, orochi's running attack is too slow and has way to much recoveries to actually catch an opponent that disengaged and is trying to flee.
It also comes from top so is not even a large swing (like warden kensei raider), is really useless at the moment.
Senior Member
dude I so agree with this, this is what happened to LB,Originally Posted by MisterGuyMan Go to original post
Junior Member
Some of these suggestions are too much. Way too much. Just make his side lights *almost* as fast as his top. That mixed with his flicker zone is overkill on its own. Unless you guys will be willing to give revamps to other characters also i wouldnt do anything outside of making his side lights on par with his top light or you're asking for community backlash. Just saying, while some of these posts are good ideas, applying some of them would break the game definitely for console players who see everything in a permanent 30fps.
Member
i don't think top light ZA it's a thing designed to be durable, it's more a consecuence of orochi lack of chains. I would chain side lights with top lights in a smoother and faster way than keep top light ZA.
If flickering is fixed, top light to ZA will finish, so top lightx2 to side attack make the work in a fairer way: less speed, more options. But for that, side light need to be faster, almost as ZA.
Member
What does make him so bad, that we saw just one player play him on season 2 premiere and almost no one playing him in tournaments?
He has such a large kit and as sad as it is, most of it is useless. We all know that everyone says that he got just two moves, top light and zone, and sadly thats true.
His riptide is so bad that there is no reason to use it instead of parry, literally no reason, you can't feint it so it's punishable. You are better off using a parry.
His deflect is not as bad but once again, why risk it if you can just use a parry? The light deflect does little to no dmg and heavy deflect can be rolled out of.
His storm rush takes insanely long time to que, very predictable, and easy to punish. You can't even use it on reaction to dodge, you got to predict that your enemy will attack, because if you do manage to dodge with it on reaction, you wont land a hit because they recover too quick. Also feint window is way too short and so is gb window.
He also got painfully slow side attacks, so bad in fact that you know no good orochi will ever use them unless it's a feint and here comes the problem, his mind game is super limited, if you see a side hit, you know it's a feint, just get ready to parry top and you get a free heavy on them. They can't land top light on you cause you keep guard top? Get ready to parry zone and get a free heavy, so basically they are super easy to crack while they got no ways to really open anyone up.
SO WHAT I SUGGEST IS, a few things actually and not all of them have to be done.
Firstly make riptide feintable, maybe even into soft gb cancel, or maybe add to where you can't be gbken while doing it.
Then lets move to storm rush, that thing should work like hidden stance or full guard and what I mean by that, you should que it by pressing C on PC, this way we will avoid miss input that gives us riptide instead, and trust me, it happens, to me and to others. Just make it so storm rush que time is shorted and input is just one button, like nobushis hidden stance, and make it work like one too, where it's an actual dodge that gives you invincibility. Broken? Not really, you get guard broken half of the time when using it now anyways, so there way to counter it, while making it not total ****. Also make feint window far longer on it and to make that happen, increase the range on it as well.
Thats not all of it either for storm rush, something must be done about how easy it is to punish, so here a few ideas that can be done, and really more than one of them should be implemented. One is making gb cancel window longer, like much longer, because when you use it now, half of the time it works, the other half it does not. It does not help that you got to get into someones face to even use it for gb cancel since the range is so short, so how about making it useful through entire or most of the storm rush run? Also how about ability of changing side of the swing mid run? This way it wont be feint or a free parry each time.
So his sides, are actually ok if everything else above gets done, cause he will have other tools but if not then maybe speed them up? and I mean just the lights.
Then lets speak about a big one, how orochi, just like kensei, just like nobushi, just like berserker, have no way to open people up and if you guys notice a trend, the top tier heroes, all have these openers. Shoulder charge, shield bash, kicks, headbuts, shoves. Most of them can't even be punished by gb, all you can do is dodge but at least they got a way to open people. All the low tier heroes don't have those, except pk, cause her attack speed is her openers, so as it stands, to balance heroes from low tier to top, they need an opener.
Yes, I am suggesting that orochi, kensei, nobushi, berserker, all get some unblockable openers. How about a kick for orochi that can drain stamina and give him a side light or something? Something thats not too damaging but something that needs to be dodged.
Member
Orochi needs an unblockable attack that is triggered via combos, not deflect. Not sure if this is what people call an 'Opener' but essentially the Orochi has become super predictable because of how long his moves take. This means he can ONLY react to the opponent without being parried, which is bad against defensive meta.
I'd like to be able to feint Riptide Strike. Causing your opponent to try and parry this while canceling into double top light would be pretty great. Otherwise, make it unblockable. This attack can be punished if you open with it, so giving it some extra pizzaz is not a bad idea. such as bleed or unblockable.
Beyond that, the Orochi has no movesets related to Parry, Block, and no Stun.
I think stormrush should be unblockable immediately after doing a combo. So if you do a heavy+back dodge+heavy, then you have an unblockable version of storm rush which you can still feint.
If you don't buff the orochi by giving him some new moves or openers, then making his cooler moves do bleed or be unblockable after a combo makes him much more desirable but require high skill.
Banned
Orochi rep 6 here with a high dual win/loss ratio.
Orochi doesn't need a massive buff, he needs a few more options.
-His side lights need speeding up to the same as top, but still single attacks (not guaranteed second as top has).
-Deflect heavy should ALWAYS hit, but I think it needs a tiny damage reduction
- Deflect light needs a small damage boost
And for gods same, SLOW DOWN THE ZONE ATTACK.
These characters need zone attacks slowing down and reducing in damage, as they're currently 'safety' buttons. In order from best to worst;
Nobushi
Warden
Warlord
Orochi
Zone attacks shouldn't be so safe and so good, nobushis can wipe out half your health for Christ's sake. Just nerf them all.
