Orochi Feedback - Post Here | Forums

[CaynAldan]

yes, the way we cant keep a guard direction.
I corrected this already, thank you;

Watching what the've done with shinobi and what they say, reflex is more a disanvantage than other thing, for assasssins use more deflect than parry. It's for left sides open to attacks and and block on reaction more than "hide" your next attack.

At least, it's what it seems to me.

[Existentialmeme]

This is a good idea for deflect reward, i have suggested something similar, with elbow, but animation kick is already there (well elbow too) it was great to have an animation for side deflect and other to front defeclt with same results

Elbow actually sound so much cooler~ and thanks

I think Orochi will be balanced if they fix those, right now it is really hard to open up turtles... unless I spam zone :P

I saw some posts about adding unblockable attack onto orochi and I think that really doesnt suit him. Katana a precision and high damage weapon, not a hard hitter, using feints to open people up suits him much better~

[MisterGuyMan]

If we really can get entirely new moves then you can make it all easy for yourself and just recycle this Knee:
http://imgur.com/MU7P6rQ
Is there really an elbow move somewhere?

[CaynAldan]

You have pommel strike of GB, and elbow from execution. But that knee it's awesome!!

When i Arrive home i'll post a video link with elbow if you don't realize what execution i'm talking about

In relation with unbrokeables and brute force, that's not just real. You have UB moves that's don't implied massive strength, just a hard way to block them, somehow. An unblockable strike could be one of incredible precision, for example. That's only personal appretiations.

[Eisenwolf.]

Hi.

ScottJund and others mentioned mostly - if not everything - about orochi that is bothering me too.
Literally every move of this character is in some way messed up (probably a result of a number of nerfs during alpha/beta). He feels like a warrior with crutches - clearly the opposite of an agile counter-attacker.


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From my understanding the orochi is meant to be a character that heavily relies on avoiding or parring attacks and/or moves(!) from his opponent...
... in other words: he is more reaction based then other characters and should be able to combo moves/attacks/chains into other moves/attacks/chains.
We all know that this is not enough to deal with turtlers. So a tech like a thrust with the weapons hilt for applying pressure (similar to warlords headbutt) would be helpfull - the katana fight style has different techniques to offer there. There are also a lot of techniques that start with a move forward into something that looks like a parry/deflect into mostly a slice attack to the opponents side and/or a poke to the chest (not that stupid one where you turn your back to your opponent).

A game mechanic I realy realy realy would like to see, is a way to temporary speed up the attack speed of the orochis chain side-attacks
(and I think he needs one more chain to combo with ... a light-heavy mix).

At last I want to say, the 3rd feat 'Slip Through' feels totally useless.
1st ... 'Riptide Strike' seems not to benefit from it
2nd ... the attack direction of 'Zephyr Slash' can't be changed nor can it connect into anything else during/after dodge, so the move is useless
3rd ... 'Storm Rush' is to easy to counter (like ScottJund said) or just feels to clunky to use with that feat
>> AND In terms of transparency, feats should show numbers (i.e. "Passive: Dodging raises Attack for 1.5s by 10%") including their cooldown (if they have one)!!

Thanks for reading and involving us.

[Edit]: Some tiny overhauls here and there.
[Edit2]: Feats need to show their Cooldown as well (if they have one)!

[Existentialmeme]

Hi.

ScottJund and others mentioned mostly - if not everything - about orochi that is bothering me too.
Literally every move of this character is in some way messed up (probably a result of a number of nerfs during alpha/beta). He feels like a warrior with crutches - clearly the opposite of an agile counter-attacker.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From my understanding the orochi is meant to be a character that heavily relies on avoiding or parring attacks and/or moves(!) by his opponent...
... in other words: he is more reaction based then other characters and should be able to combo moves/attacks/chains into other moves/attacks/chains.
We all know that this is not enough to deal with turtlers. So a tech like a thrust with the weapons hilt for applying pressure (similar to warlords headbutt) would be helpfull - the katana fight style has different techniques to offer there. There are also a lot of techniques that start with a move forward into something that looks like a parry/deflect into mostly a slice attack to the opponents side and/or a poke to the chest (not that stupid one where you turn your back to your opponent).

A game mechanic I realy realy realy would like to see, is a way to temporary speed up the attack speed of the orochis chain side-attacks
(and I think he needs one more chain to combo with ... a light-heavy mix).

At last I want to say, the 3rd feat 'Slip Through' feels totally useless.
1st ... 'Riptide Strike' seems not to benefit from it
2nd ... the attack direction of 'Zephyr Slash' can't be changed nor can it connect into anything else during/after dodge, so the move is useless
3nd ... 'Storm Rush' is to easy to counter (like ScottJund said)
>> AND In terms of transparency, feats should show numbers (i.e. "Passive: Dodging raises Attack for 1.5s by 10%")!!

Thanks for reading and involving us.

Ehhhh If you think "Slip through" is a useless feat, you're absolutely wrong, after getting the slip through feat, my attacks deal so much more damage, because most of orochi's attacks are dodge based (it buffs deflect attacks, it buffs storm rush, it buffs all the dodge light attacks) plus the slip through stays active for a few seconds after a dodge, so you still get the benefit from it if you attack fast after a dodge (and you dodge A LOT as Orochi). Riptide strike of course doesn't benefit from it as you need to dodge first, that attack's dodge is within the move, so it doesn't count (but maybe it should?) and Zephyer slash is to lightly punish people after you dodge a attack, it would be too strong if you can chain into other attacks (actually you can chain with zone pretty well). and with storm rush, yes it is easy to counter (same with Riptide strike), but that's why you can feint this move.
Regarding the hilt hit, Kensei already does it in case you didn't know.

I would gladly show you how to play Orochi and how strong Orochi can be if you play it right~ just add me

Edit: Oh also when it comes to storm rush feint, I don't know if you guys noticed but it costs no stamina, so I personally think this move is good where it is, adding more feint range would make it too strong, unblockable wouldn't make sense (see below comment).

[Existentialmeme]

You have pommel strike of GB, and elbow from execution. But that knee it's awesome!!

When i Arrive home i'll post a video link with elbow if you don't realize what execution i'm talking about

In relation with unbrokeables and brute force, that's not just real. You have UB moves that's don't implied massive strength, just a hard way to block them, somehow. An unblockable strike could be one of incredible precision, for example. That's only personal appretiations.

If you pay attention to all the character's moves that are unblockable, you'll see how much force the animation makes it seem
for Kensei's unblockable: He jumps up into the air, and slices down with all his weight
for LawBringer's unblockable: He basically make a whole rotation before landing the hit (much like Kensei's)
for Centurion's unblockable: He grabs the blade with both his hands and jabs you
for Shugoki's unblockable: don't really think I need to point out that it has tons of force in it
for Raider's unblockable: he holds the long axe at the end, more radius means more rotational force
for Orochi's unblockable deflect moves: light attack is unblockable simply because of speed, the heavy focuses all the force onto the tip of the blade, and stabs the opponent, the less area, the more force

I think that's enough to make my point~

When it comes to consistency of animation to the function of a certain move, For Honor does a really good job on it

[CaynAldan]

The problem isn't how strong could be, is more how much effort do you put in to get so much strong. If you have to work double a WL, warden, LB,PK... for same output, hero has a problem. A good player can do a lot with orochi, problem is with same skill you can do a lot more with other hero.

Orochi need openers, just in his moveset or in the core mechanics, need something more than reactive moves because you need your opponent need to do something to react for, and need a proper reward for deflecting (or you have a very easy deflect with actual rewards of change actual rewards to match actual deflect difficult)

Orochi have very good tools, but thay are so isolated you can't use it. For example, top light is awesome, but you don't have any other good light attack, so people just worried about top. (Yes, and ZA, but its an example and ZA is not a good perfomance about stamina consume for attack one target)

This is how we are saying in the threath, and how to fix it is what we are debating.

[CaynAldan]

If you pay attention to all the character's moves that are unblockable, you'll see how much force the animation makes it seem
for Kensei's unblockable: He jumps up into the air, and slices down with all his weight
for LawBringer's unblockable: He basically make a whole rotation before landing the hit (much like Kensei's)
for Centurion's unblockable: He grabs the blade with both his hands and jabs you
for Shugoki's unblockable: don't really think I need to point out that it has tons of force in it
for Raider's unblockable: he holds the long axe at the end, more radius means more rotational force
for Orochi's unblockable deflect moves: light attack is unblockable simply because of speed, the heavy focuses all the force onto the tip of the blade, and stabs the opponent, the less area, the more force

I think that's enough to make my point~

When it comes to consistency of animation to the function of a certain move, For Honor does a really good job on it

I'll see your point, but you have more UB: nobushi and shinobi kick, LB quick push, centurion kick and, as yourshelves said very precisely, orochi light deflect. The moves you enumerated do a lot of damage, but you have these UB which low damage that just put you in a good point for a follow up. That's was i what i was thinking about: A quick attack just to prepare your follow up.

Personally, i think that what most suit for orochi is something similar to centurion jab: a follow up for blocked attacks to prepare your next strike and to make good mixup with your moveset.

[Existentialmeme]

The problem isn't how strong could be, is more how much effort do you put in to get so much strong. If you have to work double a WL, warden, LB,PK... for same output, hero has a problem. A good player can do a lot with orochi, problem is with same skill you can do a lot more with other hero.

Orochi need openers, just in his moveset or in the core mechanics, need something more than reactive moves because you need your opponent need to do something to react for, and need a proper reward for deflecting (or you have a very easy deflect with actual rewards of change actual rewards to match actual deflect difficult)

Orochi have very good tools, but thay are so isolated you can't use it. For example, top light is awesome, but you don't have any other good light attack, so people just worried about top. (Yes, and ZA, but its an example and ZA is not a good perfomance about stamina consume for attack one target)

This is how we are saying in the threath, and how to fix it is what we are debating.

But deflect does have good reward... the Hurricane Blast deals a lot of damage for one hit, if they dodge sideways, you can cancel by grab and land a heavy or two top light.
Yes Orochi doesn't have a good opener, but thats where feints comes in, you use feints to force your opponent to make a move, and then counter said move.
Katana is not a weapon of speedy combo, but much more of a precision and accuracy. Look up some actual historical videos about katana and you'll see.

It's easier if i show you in-game do you play on PC?