A Solution 1v2+ , and Friendly Fire | Forums

[ATBallZ88]

I was asked to start a new thread by ChampionRuby50G for my response to Nyrue's thread "The New Dominion" in an effort to get more eyes on the proposal.

In part of their response to Nyrue's original post, Pestilence1X posted:

"Several things I think could GREATLY help with ganking and 1vX situations:
1. Increase teammate damage DRAMATICALLY.
This would make it to where there are much less random attacks coming from 15 different directions since teammates now need to watch out for each other. Attacks would be much more coordinated and heroes with unblockables and knockdowns could be in danger of their own teammates if they spam. This would especially help with the Shugoki Demon's Embrace 1vX situation."

In response to this portion, I said:

"While I have to agree with your other two solutions, this is one that I'm not too fond of. If you increase the damage you do to your teamate, you're just going to have trolls running around intentionally friendly killing, which they already try to do often enough now as it is. I think rather, that it would be a better solution to place an effect similar to the guard of a conqueror on attacking teamates, so when you hit your allies you are thrown back and left wide open long enough to take a heavy right to your face by the opponent. With something like this, it would have your desired effect of improving player coordination as opposed to wanton spam, without giving yet another tool to the d-bags already ruining this game. Further, I think that if you happen to friendly kill by ledging your ally, there should be some kind of "shared fate" mechanism, where it either kills you too or deducts a kill from your count for friendly fire."

Then as a post script second message, I added:

"Forgot to include friendly deaths caused by reckless/thoughtless use of AOEs in that "shared fate" mechanism. Lots of people intentionally dropping grenades, catapult fire, and arrow storms on their allies, either for the purpose of trolling or just to steal the kill. Killing your allies in this manner should also either kill you as well or deduct a kill from your count for friendly fire."

So in Conclusion, I'm proposing 2 new mechanics:

A. Conqueror-like deflect when attacks connect with allies: This promotes player coordination and also ease's the 1v2+ situation a bit by disallowing wanton thoughtless spam
B. Shared Fate system with either death reverberation or kill count reduction to penalize friendly kills. Further, the penalty for friendly kills could go even further by resetting any kill streak of the offender.

Thanks to ChampionRuby50g for liking the potential solutions enough to suggest they have their own thread.

[ChampionRuby50g]

Easily the best ideas I've heard for fixing Friendly fire and Ganking.
It is far to rampant in the game at this point in time, resulting in deaths that are no where near our own fault, which is incredibly frustrating. Often times you are playing with ransoms and can't coordinate your strategy.
This would be great for teamwork as it would mean warriors actually have to "WORK TOGETHER" to win, which is what it should all be about, while at the same time dissuading idiots from coming in and ruining your experience by hacking and slashing while your stuck unable to even roll out because of dumb ally's.

I know several people who I play with would love to see something like this implemented.
Great post ATBallzz88, hopefully more people see this and agree.

[Duskmare]

Option A is good, though might look a bit silly with everyone bouncing harmlessly off each other in a bloody, realistic, gritty battlefield point of view.
Option B would still allow people to kill their team-mates, which means reducing someone else's score (and fun) through no fault of their own. It should simply be reflected damage with a re-spawn penalty if they kill themselves. Also they would have to be unable to get revived by teammates.

[nyrue]

while I think your idea is unique and interesting I still think friendly fire damage increase is the best option, It gives you the opportunity to use your opponents attacks against them, example some heroes attacks have heavy tracking so when they swing you can dodge in a position so that they will hit their teammates It is the most tactical option imo giving high mobility low armor heroes the edge they need in 4v4s, I know we all hate trolls and they're out there I've played enough R6 siege to know that, but it needs too happen regardless

also I mentioned this in the previous thread single hero picks in 4v4 modes, sorry also needs to happen

[ATBallZ88]

Option A is good, though might look a bit silly with everyone bouncing harmlessly off each other in a bloody, realistic, gritty battlefield point of view.
Option B would still allow people to kill their team-mates, which means reducing someone else's score (and fun) through no fault of their own. It should simply be reflected damage with a re-spawn penalty if they kill themselves. Also they would have to be unable to get revived by teammates.

I think you're a bit confused as to what I was proposing in B. The shared fate system only penalizes whoever commits the friendly kill, not the person who was killed. It does this by either causing the person who killed you to die as well, or by reducing their kill count by one and resetting their kill streak. It has nothing to do with killing yourself.

If realism in the game were such a priority, people wouldn't be complaining so much about being ganked. If you have 2 or more seasoned warriors who've spent their entire lives training for the battlefield and have survived enough fights to still be alive to meet you all throwing blows at you from every direction, you're more than likely going to be dead. Contrary to what hollywood would have you believe, not every soldier was Jet Li standing in a circle fighting off an army on their own. Most people don't want realism, they want fair. And they want that fair in a manner that doesn't provide further tools to the people who are actively trying to ruin the game. Bouncing off eachother provides that solution, silly as it may look.

[ATBallZ88]

As a sidenote, I would like to add a bit of something about myself. People may see me talking about others who are actively trying to ruin the game and say "but Ballz, I've read some of your other posts and you talk about how you troll people". You're right, I do engage the act of trolling other players from time to time. But I am a REACTIVE TROLL. In other words, I'm a good guy until you do something that pisses me off. Then the troll comes on. And only then. I only have a certain level of patience and tolerance for morons before I give them a taste of their own medicine.

[nyrue]

idk what the answer is all I know is players should be rewarded for their skill and speed, in a FPS just because your out numbered doesn't necessarily mean your going too lose, it used to be possible to take on multiple opponents hell I've taken down whole teams but you need to find a balance there is no such thing as perfect defense one little mistake shouldn't mean game over immediately

[Illyrian_King]

I like your ideas ^^

So annoying, when people just spam the sh*t out of their teammates!
It happened so often to me, when I play LB and impale-run my enemies towards a wall and a "mate" just presses his heavy attack-button with having me straight between him and the enemy

--> interrupts me and also sometimes died --> mate gets my kill

[Duskmare]

I think nyrue has a point actually. It would be best if you could use your enemies against each other when they're all swinging wildly. It probably wouldn't stop people swinging wildly but it would at least weaken the enemy team as they do swing. They'll also interrupt each other's attacks. You could even add in extra renown for baiting team-mates into attacking each other. Like, if an enemy dies from an ally that was aiming at you then you get points for the death of that enemy plus some points for baiting the attack.

[ATBallZ88]

I think nyrue has a point actually. It would be best if you could use your enemies against each other when they're all swinging wildly. It probably wouldn't stop people swinging wildly but it would at least weaken the enemy team as they do swing. They'll also interrupt each other's attacks. You could even add in extra renown for baiting team-mates into attacking each other. Like, if an enemy dies from an ally that was aiming at you then you get points for the death of that enemy plus some points for baiting the attack.

With the conqueror-deflect it will interrupt eachother's attacks, knocking whoever is swinging wildly backward and into a stagger state allowing time for the person being ganked to get a breather or counter and hit the spammer. You originally posted "option B would still allow people to kill their team-mates, which means reducing someone else's score (and fun) through no fault of their own." What you're proposing when it comes to increased friendly damage IS EXACTLY THAT. People will be getting unfairly killed by trolls and morons who just want to ruin the game for everyone, and those people will unfairly have their KDA and score reduced through no fault of their own, and take any remaining fun this game still possesses out of the equation. Increasing friendly fire damage doesn't punish spammers, it punishes the people being hit by them, which isn't fair.