Look how punishable the kick is. | Forums

[Netcode_err_404]

if only shinobi can handle the turtle meta its fcking bad balancing in my opinion and not very fair against heroes with no unblockable spam ****, not everyone wants to play a naruto hero to be successful against tryhard turtles

amen

[DrExtrem]

This game is simply not balanced. Period.

[Kitsunenosenshi]

Posted this in another thread about the dbl dash kick:

Shinobi kick isn't a problem at all. You can punish the dbl dash in most situations and GB or hit the shinobi before the kick even comes out. Or at least when you trade with the kick it's always in your favor due to the large health difference. You trade the kick with a light for 15 damage lets say and his heavy does 25. 10 damage difference seems fair in most cases since he has 2 bars less health than many heroes. If he were to trade kicks with lights over and over he would likely lose. That's only if you trade with a light, I've noticed bushi can trade with zone which is about half shinobi's health, PK, rochi and warden I know for sure have reliable zone punishes on dbl dash as well so yeah I think people need to stop crying and focus efforts on centurions 4v4 bs potential. I imagine soon enough shinobi will end up useless in 1v1 when people learn it isn't terribly hard to just trade with the kick/gb mixup and heavily punish the squishy shinobi.

Just to make sure you understand as well, any attack used on reaction to punish the dbl dash will either hit shinobi before the kick comes out or trade with the kick or beat the GB. I am not seeing how kick even as it is currently, is even in shinobi's favor at the moment against anyone who knows what they are doing. Good players are learning to trade with it and any trade is not in shinboi's favor. The only one that comes close to ok is the light trade with kick. Every other situation is a huge disadvantage for shinobi. Not saying it's already useless against skilled players just yet but time will tell. Don't think we'll be seeing any shinobi's winning tournaments any time soon.

I would probably agree it does too much stam damage but nothing else is wrong with it. It's not like he can react to you dashing and GB instead of kick, it's a guess on his part as well. Changing anything about the kick aside from the stamina damage will turn it into a useless tool. Removing its armor would make any trade with kick leave shinobi at a HUGE disadvantage thx to his low health, making it slower or more punishable will also destroy it as it isn't hard to dodge already and if he risks a punish on whiff then again it is just never in shinobi's favor to ever use kick. Kick lands he gets 25 damage sure, but if it was avoided and punishable he loses 30+ health depending on hero and if wall is nearby. He already has less health so the risk vs reward would make kick entirely not worth it unless you are just reacting to punish something with it. Then we are back to good ol defensive For Honor where no one attacks until they can react to punish their opponent.

I could see maybe changing it so that other unblockable shoves would trade with it so that both parties are staggered by their opponents shoves and neither can follow up. But anything else and they better put his health up to 4 1/2 bars and make his guard like the other assassins.

In teams I can see how it's frustrating, but is it really more frustrating than all the other unblockables spam? Lets be real here in this situation centurion is far far worse.

Another note, the kick itself is fast yes. But the dbl dash lead up to kick is not and overall makes this move not very fast and very telegraphed and since you can be hit during the dbl dash before the kick even comes out it can be very unsafe.

Centurions have one of the faster heavy atttacks, and the shinobi was still able to parry it. Lets say a Lawbringer does this same move. His LIGHT is about as fast as the centurions heavy, maybe slower. How then are you supposed to do damage against a shinobi when you cant punish any of their moves and almost all of yours get punished? i dont care if they have the least abount of health, if you cant hit them at all then its completely unballanced.

[Danioku]

Centurions have one of the faster heavy atttacks, and the shinobi was still able to parry it. Lets say a Lawbringer does this same move. His LIGHT is about as fast as the centurions heavy, maybe slower. How then are you supposed to do damage against a shinobi when you cant punish any of their moves and almost all of yours get punished? i dont care if they have the least abount of health, if you cant hit them at all then its completely unballanced.

This example shows exactly how to fight a Shinobi as LB

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGUsK0zi9V4

[Felis_Menari]

This example shows exactly how to fight a Shinobi as LB

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGUsK0zi9V4

So, what's the takeaway here? The Shinobi is the ultimate turtle due to the lack of punishment for his botched moves?

[Mythic MK II]

The grab on the dodge only takes efffect when they are already in close proximity of the player. As seen in this vid, the shinobi came from a distance, no way to grab it.
Slower characters are unable to properly punish it with lights/heavies after they dodge the kick. Most, if not all, shinobi's have already figured NOT to use a follow up heavy after they missed the kick and just backflip into safety.

I have had many encounters with shinobi's that do JUST that and continue until I, finally, mess up my dodge and continue to turtle from a distance again and do the same thing. Atleast let me throw in a light after I dodge it. D:
The timing to dodge it is sometimes wonky as well due to the angle of the kick.