Fix to all CC/UB spam in 4v4 Game Modes | Forums

[ArlianDeBias]

Unless you're saying just every player you meet in every game is somehow "bottom of the barrel", your experience doesn't match mine at all. Some games you're teamed with bad people, other games good people, and still others you're the only "bad" player. Likewise, the randomness of PUG matching works both ways, and even if my team is "bad", doesn't always mean their team is good.

My statement was more hyperbole than fact. Your experience is as anecdotal as mine.

I really gotta question selective memory. Are you people sure you're not just remembering the "worst cases" which is branded into your memory, and casually forgetting all the cases when things went well?

While a valid concept, no.

No, a lot of my assumptions are based in that "being ganked is bad for your health, whether be it your good or not". Hence, people try to avoid getting ganked, but the trick being that just avoiding fights will naturally cause your team to suffer. So every player plays trying to balance between self-preservation and the needs of the team, which is a hard task admittedly, but then so is it the same for the other team as well.

I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say here.

Besides, you guys still haven't answered any of the crucial question: why now?

For a moment after v1.05 the great "bring back my revenge" complaints persisted throughout the forums, then as with all things, it went quiet. Then, suddenly, it's back on again, with many of the people using the excuse that the Cent/Shib has somehow made it worse.

Except it didn't, did it?

Like I've mentioned before, I don't use classes with easy UB spamming. For me, I'm always on the receiving end of that buggery, and nothing's changed or different at all. So clearly, my contention is using season2 and new classes as an excuse to imply somehow it got worse, is a sham. What I think, is this is simply another version of the "bring back my revenge" or "I need compensation for my bad gameplay" line of complaints against "ganking" -- which, btw, is in every MMOG up to date.

Set aside those egos and pride and stop thinking about how you're rep30 GS130+ class is being beaten by a rep0 new Cent/Shib, and basically, nothing's changed at all.

There have been two new characters released which excel in disabling other characters for a lengthy period of time. Previously, the only characters who could reliably disable repeatedly were the Shugoki and Lawbringer, and both of those characters have very obvious and telegraphed moves which are relatively easy to dodge. With the addition of the new heroes is the issue of being in a 1v3 or 1v4 situation against these characters who can repeatedly spam stuns, UB's and CC's and make it extremely hard if not impossible for anyone to skillfully fight their way out of the situation.

I'd like to literate the point very clearly: The issue is the fact that stuns, UB's (outlined in OP) and CC can be spammed by multiple enemies to prevent a player from doing anything and guarantees a kill for the enemy team. The current Revenge system only delays the inevitable death and doesn't give the user a reliable chance to counter any of aforementioned spam. The proposed changes in the OP would fix these.

Your implication that people are upset about the previous Revenge nerf and are using the new heroes as a scapegoat to complain about it again is unfounded and shows you haven't grasped the actual issue being discussed in this thread.

Edit: Just one additional thought: The core gameplay in a fighting game consists of fighting. If your only way to win is by running away, there's something wrong.

[Netcode_err_404]

I had a similiar idea. And i yes i think cc immunity would be usefull

[Dizzy4213]

...which, IMO, is irrelvant. Honestly, regarding UB+CCs, there's nothing different.

Me I have a thing for the "underdogs" whether be it a whole faction, or a certain class. I've only played ANY class with the stupid unblockable+unparriable spams to just find out what skills they have and never as a main, nor in any kind of depth.

All my classes I've invested time into are Kensei, Raider, Shugoki, Nobushi and PK. You'll see a pattern there that except for the PK none of them are what's been considered "OP" classes (I've started Shug AFTER they fixed the OniC) and none of them have any kind of fast, reliable UB openers.

The Shug has DemE which is useless in 1v1 unless near a wall, and while it's also one of the "CC spammers" in 4v4, DemE is in no way as efficient as spamming other, less dangerous unblockable CCs. Honestly with the Shib/Cent in the roster I feel the Shugoki is now obsolete as a real "4v4 disabler", even. Besides the Shug the only class that has any "CC" is the Raider with the easily telegraphed Stampede Charge. To me, whether it's season 2 with v1.07, or before that, it's the same UB spamming lameness when trapped in 1vX scenarios. The Lawbs and their endless stamina-busting pushes and pancake flippin' that turns you over the moment you activate revenge, the Valks and their sweeps from flankside, the endless repetitions of shoulderbash into my backside... what's actually different when it's a Cent or a Shib doing it?

Nothing.


I don't know what class you play, but if you main Warlords, Conquerors, Lawbringers, Wardens, or Valkyries in 4v4, then I don't understand what your grievance is, because the chances are you've probably been doing it to someone else all along.

Or, maybe you're an "honorable player" and personally don't like that "CC-ganking" and may not do it, -- but in 4v4 you and I both know any class player that has UB+UP or UB+UP+CC they sho' gonna abuse it to kingdom come.


So I really don't understand. As a Shug/Nob/Kens/PK/Raider player, just exactly what am I supposed to be more "angry" about when it's a Cent/Shib doing the UB spamming to me, than when it's a WD/WL/LB/CQ/VK?

I'm just going to make this clear to everyone, but I have absolutely no problem with ganking. Whether you like it or not, it's something you're going to have to deal with in any team based game. Everyone can accept that. The main issue here, is the sheer amount of CC/UB spam that we see in 4v4 game modes. These moves have always been spammed, but with the release of the new heroes, especially the Centurion. It becomes clear the something needs to be done about it for the health of the game. Centurion, who isn't even classed as a 'Disabler', can stun-lock and opponent indefinitely should there be 2 or more them. You do not even have a chance to roll away. Going back to my main point, how do you fix this issue, without completely destroying those CC/UB moves in a 1v1 scenario?

My main is a Lawbringer, so I'm already used to my Revenge Shove not knocking players down because they know it's bugged and so back dash.

I also suggested that CC/UB moves, no longer knock down an opponent if you are in Revenge, to help balance the immunity that they now have. I'd also like everyone to take note, that some heroes like Kensei, Berserker, Orochi etc, do not have an unblockable/unparryable move that can be used in Revenge Mode to knock an opponent down. By making this universal change to Revenge Mode, it will make a much fair playing ground for those heroes who don't possess such moves.

I honestly don't understand what you're problem with it is. The only people I can see who would have problems with this, are those who constantly abuse such moves. For example, a Valkyrie player activates Revenge and then hits you with Shield Crush. From there, she can then proceed to 100-0 you with a heavy attack into Shield Crush again and again and there's nothing you can do about it.

Lastly, I'd also like to clarify, I don't think it would hurt to make Shugoki's Demon Embrace the only exception to this rule. Since taking it away would have a big impact on his usefulness in 4v4 Game Modes. The move is also extremely slow and telegraphed so I don't have an issue with this one being allowed.

[ArlianDeBias]

Well, at least you're being honest about it.

So essentially, it's another revenge/gank complaint. It's just another "I can't find myself doing anything against anyone when I'm surrounded by 3~4 guys, and I want the system to protect me against this" complaint in essence,

...which probably doesn't need to be refuted yet again, since it's been beaten to death weeks and months ago.


Besides that, I don't have much to say, since all that needs to be said has already been said like zillion times. If you can't handle the prospect of being ganked, then 4v4 just isn't for you.

It's fine if you can't think of an argument to reply to me with, but you should at least be honest and say you concede the argument instead of replying with a passive aggressive post where you ignore the debate and inject your own irrelevant conclusion.

[CoyoteXStarrk]

Make revenge users immune to CC?



lol never gonna happen


Revenge JUST got balanced and now you wanna make it OP again. The community never ceases to amuse me.

[ArlianDeBias]

Make revenge users immune to CC?



lol never gonna happen


Revenge JUST got balanced and now you wanna make it OP again. The community never ceases to amuse me.

Do you actually own this game, Coyote? I'm failing to find you on fhtracker using your forum name.

[Antonioj26]

Do you actually own this game, Coyote? I'm failing to find you on fhtracker using your forum name.

He does, I don't remember what his in game name is though but someone posted it awhile back.

[Pillow_Hands]

It has kinda always been this way though, with Warden, Warlord, and Lawbringer. I would include Valkyrie but hers also knocks down team mates, and is pretty darn slow if you don't combo it in.

Really, just don't play 4v4 unless you have some CC is the name of the game.

[CoyoteXStarrk]

Do you actually own this game, Coyote? I'm failing to find you on fhtracker using your forum name.

Thats because my forum name isn't my PSN ID


And yes I do.


But what do my stats have to do with anything I have to say? Oh right! It doesn't

[XxHunterHxX]

Play 1 v 1 problem solved....