Fix to all CC/UB spam in 4v4 Game Modes | Forums

[Dizzy4213]

These moves aren't a problem in 1v1 for the most part. It's in 4v4 game modes where things start getting out of hand. The problem is, how do you put an end to the spam without completely destroying the moves in a 1v1 scenario?

The answer is simple. Make revenge mode immune to all CC/UB attacks. By this, I mean things like Conquerors Shield Bash, not an unblockable attack like Raider's Zone just to clear up any confusion. For example, if a Conqueror hits me with a running Shield Crush and I'm in Revenge Mode, I won't be knocked down. The attack will simply do nothing to me.

Revenge was nerfed awhile back because it was simply too strong. From what I understood at the time, the devs intended it to be used as an escape tool, so you could prolong the fight long enough to get help or run away. By making Revenge Mode immune to CC/UB attacks, it allows the user to do exactly that. I think we've all seen the carnage multiple Centurions can do to you when outnumbered. There's zero chance of fighting back because you're constantly getting stun-locked. I don't see anyway you could fix this without nerfing those moves into the ground. Thus, I propose you implement this desperately needed change to Revenge Mode.

Some could see this as a buff to Revenge Mode, which it technically is, but I'd like to think of it as a fix rather than a buff. Since Revenge Mode was drastically nerfed, I see absolutely no issue with introducing such a change. As long as you play it smart, it's easy to kill a Revenged player if he/she is outnumbered.

I'd really like to hear the devs thoughts on this. To me at least, this is how Revenge Mode should have always functioned.

Edit: I forgot to mention, but Revenged unblockables should also no longer knock down your opponent if you're in Revenge Mode. This is to balance Revenge Mode being immune to all CC/UB spam, and to prevent the Revenged player having a massive advantage over those who aren't in Revenge Mode. This change will also help heroes such as Kensei, who don't have an unblockable/unparryable attack that could knock an opponent down if they were in Revenge Mode.

[Antonioj26]

It's something that would be interesting to try first maybe in the ptrs they were talking about.
My only concern was cc was the only defense against heros like WL, conq, valk, and warden. I agree that's it gotten out of hand where it's at though and it'll be very difficult to get it back to a somewhat healthy place.

[Dizzy4213]

Limiting CCs to become a non-factor during revenge, simply means a skilled player will be slaughtering 1v3, 1v4 odds the way they used to. Despite people complaining about the revenge nerf, now I see more and more people who might necessarily win 1vX fights, but give the attackers run for their money. Mostly even such skilled players are limited to be on the defensive, watching out for overextending themselves, often stayting their hand to a finishing blow to someone, because that momentary opening will mean death to him when someone else dives in with a CC. You're asking the game to remove this.

Had this been the old Revenge Mode, I would completely agree with you. However, since it's been nerfed, I'm going to have to disagree. That's why I said, as long as you play it smart, you should easily be able to kill the Revenge player.

I forgot to mention, but Revenged unblockables should also no longer knock down the opponent if you're in Revenge. This would be to balance Revenge Mode being immune to all CC/UB spam, and to prevent the Revenged opponent having a missive advantage over those who aren't in Revenge.

[Antonioj26]

Had this been the old Revenge Mode, I would completely agree with you. However, since it's been nerfed, I'm going to have to disagree. That's why I said, as long as you play it smart, you should easily be able to kill the Revenge player.

I forgot to add to mention, but Revenged unblockables should also no longer knock down the opponent if you're in Revenge. This would be to balance Revenge Mode being immune to all CC/UB spam, and to prevent the Revenged opponent having a missive advantage over those who aren't in Revenge.

With this tweak then maybe it wouldn't be an issue. I'd say it's worth at the very least testing out, it can't get much worse than where it is now. I'd take old revenge over what we have now anyday.

[ArlianDeBias]

These moves aren't a problem in 1v1 for the most part. It's in 4v4 game modes where things start getting out of hand. The problem is, how do you put an end to the spam without completely destroying the moves in a 1v1 scenario?

The answer is simple. Make revenge mode immune to all CC/UB attacks. By this, I mean things like Conquerors Shield Bash, not an unblockable attack like Raider's Zone just to clear up any confusion. For example, if a Conqueror hits me with a running Shield Crush and I'm in Revenge Mode, I won't be knocked down. The attack will simply do nothing to me.

Revenge was nerfed awhile back because it was simply too strong. From what I understood at the time, the devs intended it to be used as an escape tool, so you could prolong the fight long enough to get help or run away. By making Revenge Mode immune to CC/UB attacks, it allows the user to do exactly that. I think we've all seen the carnage multiple Centurions can do you when outnumbered. There's zero chance of fighting back because you're constantly getting stun-locked. I don't see anyway you could fix this without nerfing those moves into the ground. Thus, I propose you implement this desperately needed change to Revenge Mode.

Some could see this as a buff to Revenge Mode, which it technically is, but I'd like to think of it as a fix rather than a buff. Since Revenge Mode was drastically nerfed, I see absolutely no issue with introducing such a change. As long as you play it smart, it's easy to kill a Revenged player if he/she is outnumbered.

I'd really like to hear the devs thoughts on this. To me at least, this is how Revenge Mode should have always functioned.

Edit: I forgot to mention, but Revenged unblockables should also no longer knock down your opponent if you're in Revenge. This is to balance Revenge Mode being immune to all CC/UB spam, and to prevent the Revenged player having a missive advantage over those who aren't in Revenge Mode. This change will also help heroes such as Kensei, who don't have an unblockable/unparryable attack that could knock an opponent down if they were in Revenge.

I logged in to say I one hundred percent agree with this post, and just wanted to show my support.

4v4 would be much more balanced with the changes you proposed. Ubisoft, please read this!

[Ezcendant]

Never thought I;d say this but I agree, buff revenge.

Honestly, it is a nice solution to the issue.

It's only a thing in 4v4, and in that 4v4 it's only a thing if you are fighting outnumbered. The answer to problems you meet when being outnumbered, is to either escape that situation, or never allow that to happen in the first place.

I don't normally like being so direct, but you're an idiot.

[Ezcendant]

*shrug* If you insist.

Dunno what's the deal with you but if you've got nothing else to add to the discussion than just insults, you've got issues, friend.

Well then let me elaborate. The premise for your argument requires 4v4 to be played in a way that doesn't and will never exist. It's a fictional scenario created by you for these forums that, while sounding OK on paper, would actually result in almost no combat and even fewer actual kills.

You are either intentionally misleading people, or are simply an idiot. I chose the one where you aren't a terrible person. Apologies if that isn't the case.

[ArlianDeBias]

Average players aren't anything special, but they're not dumb. They learn what works and doesn't in 4v4.

Have you ever played a massively multiplayer online video game before? 99% of the teammates in the matches I play wouldn't be able to pass the Turing test, let alone do anything to help the team win.

I think a lot of your arguments are based off the assumption that good players don't have a problem dealing with ganking, and if they did have a problem then that's just how the cookie crumbles and they should bite the bullet. In answer to those assumptions, I'm on the Leaderboard for top Peacekeeper players in the world and let me tell you that I routinely have problems with gank squads who just spam stun and CC abilities repeatedly until I am dead. There also shouldn't be any lose-lose situations in the game, and running away from an objective to escape a 'gank squad' is a lose-lose situation. I don't think things should stay the way they are and the suggestions that OP outlined would fix the current issues with revenge and ganking pretty well in my opinion.

[Charmzzz]

2 days ago I was in a premade with a very good Raider and an excellent Berserker. I was playing PK, as usual. In Dominion we faced a full premade Team (their clantag was "DD"), they went for 2 Centurions, 1 Shinobi and a Valk. They ONLY ran around as 4 and spammed CC.

They always left the match after they lost, but good ol' matchmaker decided that our teams were good matchups, so we played them several times. All 3 rounds we faced them were wins for us.

Yes, if they catched me alone it was a mess. 0 control over my character until death. But as soon as we were 2-3 people facing them we WRECKED. Literally destroyed them, we won with 500+ Points ahead. It was frustrating to get caught in their CC-train, but in the end their "tactic" (I would call it cheese) was lackluster.

[CaptainPwnet]

While I know it's frustrating to be CCd non-stop, I'm not sure there's any reason to.

It's only a thing in 4v4, and in that 4v4 it's only a thing if you are fighting outnumbered. The answer to problems you meet when being outnumbered, is to either escape that situation, or never allow that to happen in the first place. That's why even quite superior players have a lot of trouble when outnumbered, since numbers are the ultimate punishment for a moment of misjudgement in calculating your odds.

The end result is brutal, and we don't like it sometimes, but isn't that why we emphasize smart team play and tactics in the first place?

Limiting CCs to become a non-factor during revenge, simply means a skilled player will be slaughtering 1v3, 1v4 odds the way they used to. Despite people complaining about the revenge nerf, now I see more and more people who might necessarily win 1vX fights, but give the attackers run for their money. Mostly even such skilled players are limited to be on the defensive, watching out for overextending themselves, often stayting their hand to a finishing blow to someone, because that momentary opening will mean death to him when someone else dives in with a CC. You're asking the game to remove this.


I can only agree to one thing -- revenge activatrion MUST protect you against incoming unblockables. This is the only change I'd agree to, because revenge is made counter intuitive by UB spam attacks just punching through the revenge knockdown effect while you are immobilized and unable to defend yourself at revenge activation. But outside that... I really don't think so.

This, find it funny that some people here called this guy an idiot when he pretty much hit the nail on the head. If you can't adapt and ping for help or recognize no help may come and you would be better off retreating from the situation to do things elsewhere then that is your own fault. Outnumbered situations are not supposed to be an easy affair people. I know everyone likes to think they are super 1337 gamer with skillz capabale of overcoming all handicaps but it's time to come back to reality. If you are outnumbered you are going to be at a disadvantage, a severe one. 2v1 means they have 2 times your capability in that engagement and that should not always be easily overcome, revenge is a tool to help you survive long enough for help to arrive or facilitate an escape. Will it work out all the time? No, because you may have activated your revenge at a poorly chosen time or your opponents may have been a step ahead of you or you put yourself in a hard to escape position or whatever. But again it is a tool to help, not guarantee.

Not to mention some classes are specifically designed for shutting players down in these situations and such a change would immediately make them much less effective in 4v4. If you see them then you should definitely be considering if it's worth trying to stick around in a 2v1. Too many kids here want COD with swords(which is ironically what the devs reffered to the game as at some point lol). But the reality is this game requires a little more thought then just running around swords a-blazing.

I will agree that it can be frustrating if your team is not pulling their weight and leaves you constantly trying to deal with 2+v1 situations but that is a matchmaking issue just as much as it could be considered a game mechanic issue. Just remember if they had more players then you at that location then that means your team has the numbers advantage elsewhere. Not always the case due to poor matchmaking as I just said though.

+1's for revenge activation parries affecting unblockable shoves as well not sure why this isn't already a thing. This change would be a smart one and likely go a long way I think.