Junior Member
With the confusing information on PvAI duels, specifically whether or not they are supposed to work, I'm starting to fear for the future of this game mode on all platforms.
On one hand, the evidence, such as changes in xp rates given from PvAI duels in patch notes, the idea that all orders should be possible to complete, both PvAI and PvP, and the fact that the lack of rewards is not notified to the player beforehand, but you are given an error message, points to PvAI duels being designed to give rewards. The XP is not that great, the chance of an item is small, so other game modes are definitely preferable if you want to level up and get gear. I would consider that balanced.
I really hope that the "except duels vs AI" part UbiNoty wrote in another post announcing the incoming PvAI fix (thank you, btw) actually means that duels vs AI on PC is bugged on PC in a way you still haven't managed to solve. In which case, fair enough, if the bug is that hard to iron out, just continue to work on it.
But it makes absolutely no sense if it actually means you want to keep it that way on one platform. And it will piss a lot of console users off if the hotfix we're getting kills our ability to do duels PvAI which we have, right now.
Before going back to university, I used to work at a high school, with the coordination of methods and services for use in teaching students with special needs, for anything from dyslexia to serious physical or mental handicaps. Our biggest challenge was making sure that all of these students felt included in their class, their lectures, that they didn't stand out and attract attention. Why? Because feeling excluded is one of the hardest things you can endure. A public school, for any age group, is supposed to be for everyone. School is a part of all our lives, and accessibility is important. And as it turns out, it's OK to have a different chair and desk than everyone else, or not go to gym class, as long as you still feel included in the community that your school class is supposed to be.
For many years, I've seen that same inclusion in video games. Already as a high school student, I saw my friend learn English despite his dyslexia because he played MMORPG's with people from all over the world. I talked to people in the games I played with disabling anxiety disorders, arthritis, people who were colour-blind, deaf, disabled army veterans who got hurt in combat, and meeting all those people and seeing what the inclusive nature of video games did for their social lives and wellbeing was the reason I applied to, and got, the job I mentioned in the first place.
I’ve also learned that people who are EXCLUDED, have a hard time asking to be INCLUDED. It falls to us as scientists, designers and engineers to make sure they are not excluded from the future we’re building. I would very much like For Honor to be a part of that future, and you seem like good people, so I assume you want that too.
I've said it before and I'll repeat it here: Duels are NOT the way to go if you want to force people to start PVP'ing. It is too stressful, everything, even the smallest mistake you make will be noticed by the other person. If you have anxiety, and you just want to play this game PvAI to escape into a different world for a while, you're NEVER going to decide that "hey I'll just do some duels vs another player, who is a stranger, ‘cause I can't do this mode with rewards against my friends even". It's not going to happen.
If you really want to get more of the PvAI crowd to dip their toe into PvP then make weekend events where the whole community gets steel regardless, with the only objective being "capture bases in Dominion, PvP". Probably the LEAST intimidating PvP activity possible in this game, as even a beginner will probably manage to get in on capturing that very first base, and get to contribute to the community, but won’t risk missing out on the reward regardless. Or perhaps make it “revive teammates in dominion”, again it would be a mode where you can shy away a little if you need to, and if you die, no one’s going to get upset, since reviving you will actually count towards the community challenge.
Do not force people with “optional” orders so they can miss out on hard-earned XP and steel, ESPECIALLY not the daily orders for 400 steel
Do not force people with anything mandatory
Do not think that just because an order doesn't require you to WIN a duel, it will take the pressure off of people who shy away from PvP for various reasons and make them play it PvP
Do not presume other human beings think like you, have the same needs as you, and can be pushed to try new things the same way you can
You will find that the people whom you push out of their comfort zone too harshly, will simply quit. It is not the right way to go.
Perhaps it is better to look at the system as a whole, and find if there are things that can be changed in a different way to achieve the same?
If we look at the question of duels, I highly doubt that the “do 3 duels with any hero” daily order would make a PVP’er choose completing the order vs. AI. On the other hand, the “25 takedowns in duels” is a good example of a contract order that could easily have PvP’ers opt for PvAI to complete the order without added frustration. If this is the case, the problem is not that duels PvAI is available, the problem is that the order is tedious. What needs to be changed is the order, not the game mode.
Another order that people tend to opt out of PvP for is the Skirmish/Dominion kill streak of 8 without dying order. The easiest way to do this order is PvAI, without matchmaking, and telling the bots on your team that you’ve got it, in every fight, so you can get the killing blow. This constantly gets suggested to players who have difficulty with these orders on Reddit and the forums, and gamers will always choose the path of least resistance, so you might as well cave and change the order.
These orders are anti-teamwork, and counterproductive for solid, fun PvP. There are other examples as well, such as the minion killing ones. You’ve already looked for alternative orders, and I think you have some great ideas. The point is, don’t remove game modes, if the problem is the order.
And don’t underestimate the importance of the daily and contract orders to your players. If a contract can’t be completed PvAI, that’s like saying “you’ve got to be this tall to ride”. It’s a reminder of what you can’t do, blinking, in your face, all day. It is unnecessary and cruel. And because it is unnecessary and cruel, it might be the drop that makes the glass run over and make someone quit your game altogether. Achievements and a few ornaments etc gated behind the game’s story campaign on different difficulties should be enough gating of content for the elite few. Especially since it is possible for a good player to go into the campaign and help a friend who can’t achieve the same alone.
These days, there’s a shift in the gaming industry towards games that are more difficult. More and more games come out without difficulty settings, with combat and death penalties designed for hardcore players. What is it these games are actually selling? Where I live, completing Dark Souls gives bragging rights. And of course I am fully aware of the adrenaline rush and feeling of accomplishment that comes with it, I’ve dipped my toe, specifically I’ve completed difficult end-game content designed for groups solo or in pairs in certain games, and yeah, you do feel on top of the world for a few minutes. Perhaps it even makes my day… but it is optional. You can experience the exact same content, get the exact same rewards, in a full group in the same game, it is not gated to an elite few.
Playing hardcore games, and playing them well, gives you membership in an elite club, it gives you the feeling of inclusion, but what does it do for those that are unable to achieve the same? We all WANT to be included, it’s human nature, and hardcore games bank on that desire with high sales but low completion rates. What about the people who are physically unable? I wouldn’t recommend a video search but I can give you some info on what you’re likely to hear (trigger warning).
Spoiler: Show
That S**t might be funny if you’ve never known anyone who struggle with anything, but if you do, it’s horrifying. It’s an industry failing the demographic that need it the most, that might have relied on the access to new, fun games, new worlds to escape into for years, before finding themselves cut off from game after game because of the hardcore movement. Yet another defeat for someone who have lived through too many already. Yet another exclusion for someone who desperately needs inclusion.
Those few moments of fleeting adrenaline rush upon success, the bragging rights? They are the positive. Weigh them up against the negative, people feeling excluded, and the equation doesn’t add up. You get a negative sum total (trust me, I study maths *sigh*) I’m sorry to say, but it shouldn’t be worth it to anybody.
Let’s say these hardcore games, (like the Dark Souls series, or The Surge), add in the difficulty tiers that most other games have had for years now, what would be the difference? Instead of “I beat *insert hardcore title*”, the bragging rights would require “I beat *insert hardcore title* on hard”. Two more words. Two words, that would make the whole world more welcoming to a lot of people. And gamers have been doing that for a long time, beating games like Diablo 3 hardcore, while the same game is accessible to anyone with even an Easy difficulty, it doesn’t make their achievements less impressive…
I want to make it clear that I’m not saying that hardcore players don’t have a place in the gaming community. I’m saying that hardcore players can keep their place in the community, the bragging rights, without the industry taking content away from the players who need easier access to the content.
For honor is already a game that gates content like this. I have friends who would never buy it because when they tried it, they found the starting difficulty to be WAY too hard and punishing to be fun. For Honor could honestly benefit from having a 0.5 bot level, and a Casual campaign difficulty, because the game is intriguing to a LOT of gamers, and you could easily have a larger demographic if you opted for these things.
But perhaps you can start by NOT taking content away from gamers who need the access they already have.
Personally, I would be absolutely fine with duels vs AI not being a thing if duel orders (especially the daily 400 steel ones) were also removed since ALL ORDERS SHOULD BE COMPLETABLE FOR BOTH PVE AND PVP PLAYERS. But the thing is that just because *I* don't care much for duels, due to the fact that I prefer to play with my friends and there's no way to complete duel orders WITH a friend at the moment on ANY platform since you can't PvP against each other outside the training modes, doesn't mean that some other player doesn't LOVE PvAI duels.... wouldn't it be cruel of me if I was to push decisions that benefited myself without taking into considerations the needs and opinions of other people?
The fact that I don’t personally have a lot at stake with PvAI duels is the reason why I’m writing this post. It doesn’t affect me much, personally, but I know that if something does, it makes it that much harder to ask for. If *I* get a negative comment in this thread? *shrug*, people have different opinions, but for someone for whom PvAI duels is the reason he gets up in the morning (and they probably do exist,) it could be soul-crushing. So please, please listen.
I would happily hand over my kill/death statistics of every hero directly to Roman to show that duels PvAI can be just as much, if not more, of a challenge, as other PvAI modes, if it meant that the mode could be kept, and rewarding, for those players who do love it. Plus, for people who love duels, it can be nice to fight different classes, rather than just the same few meta heroes over and over in PvP…
I really hope you’ll choose a solution that makes people happy and adds to, rather than shrinks, your player base! Perhaps in the future you can add game difficulty options and modes that invite more people in, regardless of skill level, so they can enjoy this game, because at the end of the day, For Honor really is an amazing game, with the potential for a wide appeal.
Thank you for your time.
When we design for for disability, we all benefit
- Elise Roy, 2015
