Things Ihave learned playing the shinobi | Forums

[zide-]

After repping up my Shinobi to level 1, I can say Shinobi is not OP in any way. Every attack is easy to counter, his damage is garbage and he is basically like paper when it comes to health, meaning he goes down after like two successful hits. Only advantages he has are his speed and light attack spam than can be an annoyance to deal with as a slower class, but again, do one successful parry and Shinobi is in trouble.

I was hoping him to be decent so I guess I'm a bit disappointed how underpowered Shinobi is but on the otherhand there is not much room for buffing him considering how fast he is. Increasing his damage and health would really make him OP and I really don't want to have another PK tier class in the game.

[Mia.Nora]

Uhm, I run PK mainly and I've gotten out of a trio Of Cents spamming charges at me. Timing is key.

But I did not say you can not dodge lunge????

I said if it lands, rest is confirmed and you can not dodge. If you claim you managed to get out after a lunge landed on you, let lone when 3 centurions doing that, then you are lying. Straight up I am calling your ********.

Or if you claim you dodged out of a GB>wall>charged heavy>jab>charged heavy>jab infinite; again you are lying.

[SnugglesIV]

the only opener with shinobi is the double dodge kick heavy attack, it has good tracking but the enemy can get in a heavy whilst your doing the kick. no one uses the charged attack/GB because its too punishable and predictable, i only use that in a chain. Shinobi is not viable for 4v4 in my opinion.

If you are talking about doing a heavy during the kick, it doesn't work. The kick is uninterruptible. The only thing I can think of that stops the kick DURING it's animation is a fully charged heavy from Centurion but I'm almost certain I'm wrong on this. The only way for Centurion to punish double dash kick is to hit him BEFORE the kick goes off.

[DrinkinMyStella]

If you are talking about doing a heavy during the kick, it doesn't work. The kick is uninterruptible. The only thing I can think of that stops the kick DURING it's animation is a fully charged heavy from Centurion but I'm almost certain I'm wrong on this. The only way for Centurion to punish double dash kick is to hit him BEFORE the kick goes off.

i mean the heavy straight after the kick which seems to guarantee a hit because of how quick it is. you can still take damage in the middle of the kick but yes the only thing that stops it is an unblockable or charged heavy.

[SnugglesIV]

i mean the heavy straight after the kick which seems to guarantee a hit because of how quick it is. you can still take damage in the middle of the kick but yes the only thing that stops it is an unblockable or charged heavy.

Interesting. However I fail to see the application since you would have to use your charged heavy BEFORE the kick to charge it all the way. Even unblockables like Warlord's head butt will need you to use it before the kick to land it. Otherwise the kick will hit you out of whatever attack you are doing (unless you are Shugoki with hyper armour stance active).

[Rikuto01]

I am not going to argue if the class is overpowered or underpowered, my position on it is that we will only know this after everyone has had the new characters for a couple of weeks, this and I still consider myself a peacekeeper main, but here are a few things I have picked up from playing him.

I keep reading a lot about the dodge kick the shinobi has and how it is 400ms reaction time. If a shinobi is dodging towards you, he has something in mind, bear in mind that he will not win a toe to toe fight with his health and also bear in mind that he has zero options after a single dodge. While the reaction time between disappearing and the kick may be 400 ms, what you should be reacting to is the first dodge that is needed to initiate the double dodge. The shinobi can also have the kick shut down with an attack. Seriously, the centurion with a non charged attack, so short range, did this to me. Now sometimes he will dodge to the side then front or vice versa which changes the angle or he will do nothing after the dodge, consider it shinobi feinting, but if you are watching, you will learn when he is about to come at you with that kick.

People have complained about the range, but one thing that I am fairly confident in is that the attacks do not track, a dodge will avoid them, if they are going for a guardbreak, there is a visual effect which enables you, after time, to tell the difference. The further away he is, the easier it is to dodge, also the easier he is to parry or cbg, and remember that either a parry or cgb on the charged heavy will make him fall over for a punish.

The main problem people have right now is he is a turtle breaker, same with the centurion, and I love them both for it, people can no longer be passive when they meet these because that plays into their hands, I hope the changes Ubisoft have planned enable other heroes to open people up.

Like I said, I don't know if he is overpowered or underpowered, I have read so many threads arguing both, what I think is he can do potentially a lot of damage but he pays for it heavily in being squishy, he is a standard glass cannon, a round of duel or a matchup in dominion can potentially end very quickly ending in either result, and hopefully this helps some people struggling to deal with him.

If a character can do a lot of damage in a guaranteed manner, then his opponents HP is also effectively reduced because he is still losing a similar percentage of health on exchange. And we die by lost percentage.

So the glass cannon argument is a fallacy. So with the glass cannon argument out of the way, who has the better tools that are more likely to result in damage actually happening?

The answer is, the Ninja does. Bam, Overpowered. End of argument.

Only question now is do we want every character to be that good, or do we want to bring the Ninja down to the same level as everyone else? Given that the ninja busts the meta everyone seems to hate, I'd say everyone else needs to be retooled. I just doubt there will be a huge commitment to doing that as it would involve reinventing the very core of every character, and essentially the game itself. You'd need a pretty compelling argument to justify such a work cost.

I mean, look at the ridiculously damaging and easy to do setups that the ninja and centurion both have for massive damage combos.

And meanwhile... raider gets more fully reactable stunning tap mixups that cost 75% and leave him with no room to capitalize on it. Going to have to do better than that, im afraid. Can't have this game being balanced with two totally different mentalities.

[DrinkinMyStella]

Interesting. However I fail to see the application since you would have to use your charged heavy BEFORE the kick to charge it all the way. Even unblockables like Warlord's head butt will need you to use it before the kick to land it. Otherwise the kick will hit you out of whatever attack you are doing (unless you are Shugoki with hyper armour stance active).

no i dont charge the heavy i just follow up after the kick with a normal heavy then i chain a combo of lights then dodge back.

[CandleInTheDark]

I've played shinobi in dominion some and I have found probably two viable ways to play him. The first is to boost zone, he gets renown there quicker than I remember my peacekeeper getting and if it is home zone likely he will get 1v1s. The other isn't going to appeal to some players, but it is pretty much taking their weakness, being teamed on, and instead doing that to others with spider silk whip, kicks to interrupt chains and get free damage and kills that way, this mostly in the soldier area of the map (though don't be in a press of soldiers, even they can do a chunk of damage to you). Basically, it is playing to how we are told he is, mobile, and with stealth as an opening feat, unlock that quickly boosting a zone and getting a kill, you have someone who can do surprise damage with only a brief side indicator as a warning.

[Rikuto01]

If it took anyone two weeks to figure out if Raider was garbage, I'd politely but firmly ask them to stop playing.

Not sure why anyone should give Ninja or Centurion the benefit of the doubt about the opposite here. Obvious conclusion is obvious.

[CandleInTheDark]

If it took anyone two weeks to figure out if Raider was garbage, I'd politely but firmly ask them to stop playing.

Not sure why anyone should give Ninja or Centurion the benefit of the doubt about the opposite here. Obvious conclusion is obvious.

The difference is back at the beginning, no one knew the kit of all the heroes so there was no advantage. At the moment, you have players that know both their kit and their opponent's kit against players who know their own but nothing about the new characters. Part of this is learn to play and while some can't play them yet, they can still put them in a bot battle to learn the ropes against them, only I am willing to bet steel that about 75% of the player base went right into dominion like nothing had changed, I would also bet some of those have seen nothing from the last Den or the premiere on how they play either.

If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.