This has got to stop, really, it has. | Forums

[Liv3rp00l]

It's easier to address the main bulk of the issue through a video, however I understand that some people would rather have a visual representation, and so for those I will leave a brief summary of the issues that the video encapsulates.

In summary: TL;DR; Exploitation of mechanics such as the Warden's Shoulder Charge, the Warlords Headbutt and all of the other spammable moves, are not a developer problem. They are a community problem.

People who abuse and exploit mechanics over and over again until said character is nuked, will then hop ship to other characters, to continue exploiting breakable mechanics, until every character is nuked to the ground.

In the video below, I play against many Wardens (though I only show three). I do this, to open the discussion. I am not a fantastic player. I consider myself to be the top part of average. If I can adequately and reasonably deal with the Warden's spammable shoulder bash (not every time, but a fair amount of times) then I hope to add to the discussion that perhaps such things do not need nerfing. Perhaps the playstyles of such people who abuse the mechanics should be pulled into question.

I chose the Warden because he is currently being targeted along with the Warlord and Valkyrie amongst members of the community.

This is a brief summary and does not encompass everything in the video, merely the main summary. For the full discussion, please watch the video. It is 30 minutes long. Thank you.

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Original Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3p7RaVXDC0

[cragar212]

I'm obviously not going to watch a 25min video

Are yiu saying players shouldn't spam tgeir most effective move it gives tgem a significant advantage in a competitive game?

[Netcode_err_404]

I'm obviously not going to watch a 25min video

Are yiu saying players shouldn't spam tgeir most effective move it gives tgem a significant advantage in a competitive game?

Are yu saying for honor is competitive ? SInce when ?

[Netcode_err_404]

Since it had a human player across the table. Look up what "competitive" means in the dictionary.

I looked, but the dictionary gave me error 0004000008

[Burn-The-Sinner]

So basically I should use the moves only you approve of so that you can get easy wins without trying. Nice joke.

[Liv3rp00l]

So basically I should use the moves only you approve of so that you can get easy wins without trying. Nice joke.

Quote where exactly I say that, please?

[Liv3rp00l]

I'm obviously not going to watch a 25min video

Are yiu saying players shouldn't spam tgeir most effective move it gives tgem a significant advantage in a competitive game?

I am saying that if there is a clear indication that the mechanic was not meant for that, then yes, you shouldn't abuse it. If the move is designed to be used repetitively, and that is the purpose, then it is fine to spam it.

Ultimately, I'm saying use the moves as they were intended, and not simply because you can / exploit them.

[Netcode_err_404]

I am saying that if there is a clear indication that the mechanic was not meant for that, then yes, you shouldn't abuse it. If the move is designed to be used repetitively, and that is the purpose, then it is fine to spam it.

Ultimately, I'm saying use the moves as they were intended, and not simply because you can / exploit them.

That is something ubisoft should fix, you cannot come here and ask people to not abuse.

I agree with you, but some people don't play to have fun. So if spamming cheese charge with warlord works better than combo mix up, rest assured people will abuse that to win.

Like they abused the ulock "tech" calling it legit, somehow,.

[Liv3rp00l]

Thx for the good vid and the opinion. I certainly appreciate the effort.

Thank you for the first civil and meaningful addition to the discussion.

But in reality, no amount of moral or ethical pleading solves the issue. Basically, think of it as exploitation of other people within boundaries of the law. You can beg and plead to all the good hearted people in the world, but still it won't stop the problem since legally, there's no problem at all.

I completely understand where you're coming from. Gaming communities however are a microcosm of the real world community as a whole. I think this is a very interesting social experiment (uploading the video and seeing peoples responses) on a psychological level. Cannibis is illegal, and yet the curative properties of the plant are well documented. Many, many people want to see those laws changed, and so with regards to an exploitation of the mechanics being legal, I see no reason to do something, simply because you can. As with the cannibis analogy, depending on the persons subjective opinion of the severity of the issue; laws / legalities and rules, become meaningless and advocacy for change becomes prevalent.

So people will use it, exploit it to gain profit from it. That's something that cannot be stopped by good heart alone, and it's why people make laws, set rules and regulations.

Indeed, I agree. As with my previous point, however; Simply because something is allowed, does not make it okay. Here in Britain (not sure about other parts of the world) Cats are legally considered feral. Even if they're domestic pets. This means that if a person killed your cat, because it was on their property, there is nothing you can do, unless you prove that it was pre-planned and they knew it was your pet; then it can be argued for animal cruelty.

It is the same with this game. Simply because a mechanic is in place and is exploitable, does not mean that it is okay, legal or not. Don't get me wrong, these are just my opinions, whether things change or not, honestly doesn't bother me. I simply find it fascinating to see how offended people get over the issue (not yourself personally).

Same in games. You can't fix it by trying to influence people to play the way you like them to, no matter how right it is.

I don't mind if people don't play the way that I play. I really don't, that's why as a disclaimer I say that several times to attempt to make it abundantly clear throughout the video. The main goal of my video was to open discussion (such as we're having now) and also in a way to observe peoples reactions to it. Seeing how so many people rationalise exploitation, simply because it exists in a virtual reality, is fascinating.

The only power that has direct influence over the game and how it is played, just like the law, are the devs. It's why ultimately it falls upon their hands to fix things.

Ultimately, I believe you're right. However, I don't believe that socially (whether a virtual society or not) this is acceptable (if that makes sense). It's funny how a Twitch / MLG / Tournament culture creeps into games and makes grown men (and women) turn into (what I personally perceive to be) little children. They will resort to any technique and any tactic to win, until the parents (developers) tell them not to.

I am without a doubt, a casual gamer. I play simply to have fun. Some times I throw people off of ledges, other times I play the whole honourable way... At others I run around 'trolling' with my Raider doing the hump. It is a game, and I treat it as such, spamming the same move (exploiting mechanics) does not present any entertainment for me, after doing it once or twice.

Anyways, I'm sorry if I come across as snobbish or arrogant, I don't intend to be, I just want to be very clear about where I stand, whether or not people play my way, I couldn't care less. The whole thing is just interesting, and I truly appreciate your input, thank you.

[Liv3rp00l]

That is something ubisoft should fix, you cannot come here and ask people to not abuse.

I can because... I just did. In the same way that you are entitled to exploit mechanics (I'm not saying that you personally do, but you get the idea), I am entitled to request that you don't. In the end however, I fear that you are another person who completely misunderstands the point of the video. It was more a social experiment. I'm not asking you to play my way. I'm providing you with food for thought. Whether you agree or disagree is fine, but do not assume that I am trying to make you conform to any pre-determined play-style.

I agree with you, but some people don't play to have fun. So if spamming cheese charge with warlord works better than combo mix up, rest assured people will abuse that to win.

I'm afraid that you are completely right.

Like they abused the ulock "tech" calling it legit, somehow,.

I'm sorry if I have appeared to be aggressive in any way through my reply, I don't mean to be. I appreciate your input, and as with Kweassa, I just want to be abundantly clear on where I stand. Thank you very much for taking the time to respond.