Raider buff; is it really needed? | Forums

[Mudflaaaps]

If you actually read what I said properly instead of getting bit chy, I said my orochi has a 97% duel win rate.

Raider wouldn't win any tournaments. Not because he's weak, because people such as peacekeeper and warlord are too strong. That says to me that they need nerfing, not raider needs buffing...

[Mudflaaaps]

Mate they'll never fix the turtle meta properly. A good defense is the best offense, they've taken that REALLY literally. I just hope centurion is an absolute God, because if tons of people play as him they won't nerf him right? Like warden or warlord? Right.

[Antonioj26]

Can soft feint every light into a stunning tap, every heavy like other characters, can feint unblockable. That's every move.

There's no point in discussing which moves of his aren't good, because you could argue 5/12 of the current characters have useless moves and they are STILL viable in the game.

Yeah, he's lower tier. Because other characters are better. No one is denying that. But is that reason enough to give him all these buffs? If they keep buffing everyone who's 'lower tier' then what happens when everyone's extremely good? Buff the top tier ones?

I think he needed a small buff. But what he's getting is waaay too much, like lawbringer.

Take kensei. He was alright, not terrible but not amazing. He needed a SMALL buff, so they did that. Where would you put him now in relation to the others, because I main him and I can slaughter everyone bar good peacekeepers. It's all relative is what I'm saying, just because not everyone is amazing with raider does not mean he needs a huge buff.

He cannot soft feint his lights. Your right about most characters having completely useless moves but many of them have something to make up for it. Raider really doesn't have anything going for him. Yes that's what devs do to lower tier characters, they buff them so they are closer to the rest of the cast. That's what balancing is.

No game is balanced but they devs usually try to get it close as they can. That's why you aren't seeing buffs go to warlord, warden, or pk. It's apparent that they are already strong. The point of buffs and nerfs is to balance a game, so if everyone is extremely strong then they wouldn't need to make any more adjustments so they would just stop.

Kensei is still low to mid tier. Here's the thing tiers matter less and less the farther down you are in skill level. This is not me insulting your skill but what I'm saying is that this game has low skill ceiling so no matter how good you are at a certain point it won't make up the power gap between the characters. Some characters are clearly better than others as you just said so what's wrong with trying to make them so they are pretty close to being good? By the way I'll be on in at 6pm pacific if you still want to duel.

[Knight_Raime]

All you really have to do is look at the top 3 heros in the game. and you have your answer.
Raider wasn't bad. But that doesn't mean he shouldn't ever receive buffs.

[Antonioj26]

If you actually read what I said properly instead of getting bit chy, I said my orochi has a 97% duel win rate.

Raider wouldn't win any tournaments. Not because he's weak, because people such as peacekeeper and warlord are too strong. That says to me that they need nerfing, not raider needs buffing...

But he is weak though you have to look at it comparatively. Lets make this as simple as possible and say for honor only has 3 characters. Warlord, orochi, and raider. Now it should be obvious where everyone falls. Warlord is s tier, orochi A, and raider B. By comparison raider is weak. It would be better in this scenario to buff raider than it would be to nerf warlord at least in my opinion. I would think it would make more sense to have only 1 character that has an advantage 2 than it is to have 2 characters that have an advantage over 1.

[Djebeo]

I think this buff is very well done and balanced.

To the people claiming that he should get a heavy off gb: you are wrong, that would be a major balancing issue. Due to his gb/dodge mechanics, Raider can reliably gb most moves that are normally safer. His heavies do a lot of damage.
Zone is guaranteed of a gb against non assassins. Sure, it costs a lot of stam, but has enough damage to finish the last bar. And now with the +10 stam, I think you can from full stam go zone feint into gb into zone without getting exhausted.
A free heavy off gb would be way too op in his kit.

Also remember that his unique gb properties make him immune to most of the 50/50s in the game, and preemptive dodge is almost 100% safe on the raider.

Contrary to what people like to say, Raider has a decent opener, which is zone mixup. It was already good enough with zone feint into gb, now you will also be able to zone soft cancel into tap.

Raider has very slow heavies, which is actually better than slow heavies, because it often toys with the opponents parry timing. Ask any raider main how many side heavies he got like that.

So yeah, I am one of those that were thinking Raider was already very viable. On paper, they buffed him in the area where he was really lacking, making him more interesting without breaking him. Obviously we will have to see it in game before saying anything definitive.

[Mudflaaaps]

Well, you've actually made a good point. I'll agree with that for the most part. I still think he'll jump straight to the top as lawbringer has done, but we'll see.

[Antonioj26]

I think this buff is very well done and balanced.

To the people claiming that he should get a heavy off gb: you are wrong, that would be a major balancing issue. Due to his gb/dodge mechanics, Raider can reliably gb most moves that are normally safer. His heavies do a lot of damage.
Zone is guaranteed of a gb against non assassins. Sure, it costs a lot of stam, but has enough damage to finish the last bar. And now with the +10 stam, I think you can from full stam go zone feint into gb into zone without getting exhausted.
A free heavy off gb would be way too op in his kit.

Also remember that his unique gb properties make him immune to most of the 50/50s in the game, and preemptive dodge is almost 100% safe on the raider.

Contrary to what people like to say, Raider has a decent opener, which is zone mixup. It was already good enough with zone feint into gb, now you will also be able to zone soft cancel into tap.

Raider has very slow heavies, which is actually better than slow heavies, because it often toys with the opponents parry timing. Ask any raider main how many side heavies he got like that.

So yeah, I am one of those that were thinking Raider was already very viable. On paper, they buffed him in the area where he was really lacking, making him more interesting without breaking him. Obviously we will have to see it in game before saying anything definitive.

His side heavy does the same damage as orochis top heavy so I don't think it's out of line for him to have a free GB off of heavy. His zone into gb mixup is risky and reactable. If they do parry you are completely out of stam. Having slower heavies might be beneficial on people at lower levels but not much at higher. At a certain point can just stop attempting parrys and block if you keep going that route even if they aren't figuring out the parry timing on them. I will say that I forgot about him having the unique ability to dodge the 50/50 gbs. Indeed is a powerful defense mechanic but he was near the bottom before the buff and he will still only be mid after it.

[Mudflaaaps]

He can feint left or right light into top stunning tap.

I see your point, but I disagree. If 3 characters are above 9 others, buffing those 9 (or some of them and leaving the others in the dust) is the wrong way to go about balancing. Now if they made it their priority to get everyone on a reasonably level playing field, I'd be totally supportive of that. I just don't like seeing already average characters jump to unstoppable gods.

[Antonioj26]

Well, you've actually made a good point. I'll agree with that for the most part. I still think he'll jump straight to the top as lawbringer has done, but we'll see.

lol I won't get into LB being overpowered again. It's obvious he falls below warlord warden and pk. I personally think he sits somewhere around the same place as shugo and valk. So I think at best you could argue he's the 4th best character in the game and at worst the 6th. I wouldn't call that overpowered but many do I guess.