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Seriously, i can dodge headbutts and shovel with shugoki aswell on consol, bit with shugoki i don't really need to dodge them. I also dodge valk spear sweep with shugoki.Originally Posted by Lord-Micidial Go to original post
But if some plays good and makes his moves much harder to predict it his - i do see many good youtubers who are still getting hit by shovel and headbutts.
Let me explain it with the Conquerer, his shildbash got nerfed really hard, it is really predictable, becaus you need to dodge first to use it.
But still manage to hit with shild bash many times, because i play smart, i bash when they do not count with it or shortly after they dodge.
Oh and just a friendly advice: Try to learn as much heros as possible, it will help you to understand the way those fight it makes, it easier for you to fight them.
You can also learn new ways to play your mains.
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Not a bad list. But i think it loses context as the list goes down and need better explanation. You offered details and data as how and why the top on the list where there. But as you go down the list you start losing data. Orochi, Valk, Nobushi and Kensei are basically the same explanations. "these are balanced as they are <insert their only viable use or gimmick here>. And that actually is the the TLDR reason they are there. There needs to be more context and details on why each character is there, Pros and Cons. I main Nobushi, and i can provide a lot of reasons why she's there. But they would fall under the same category as why many of the cast like Kensei and Raider are also down there with her. Lack of utility. Sure you can deal damage and do mixups with them but all characters can do that. While the rest of the cast can do much more, and have more options, specially when opening up characters (warden and warlord have fast instant unblockables to start the fight) and they can mix up all around these. PK like you said doesn't need one for reasons you explained, and now LB has his shove to initiate the offensive, even though he can't capitalize on damage as well as Warlord or Warden but still can initiate a considerable offensive. The rest of the cast . (Nob, Ken, Raider, Orochi) have less to work with in order to open up, and some of these have huge holes on their defensive game (like Nobushi and Raider having slow guard stance speed). The only one i find truly balance is Valk, not too powerful but not too weak, this is because she doesn't have a strong initiator attack like warden or warlord (thank god for that) if she did she would be way more on top. You need to be good at initating something with valk so you can actually start your sweeps, rams, gb etc. But like i said. The list needs more explanation on the characters.
Now what I would like to see is a proper match up thread. Who has the odds against who, also providing data on which map site their in.
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Originally Posted by Lord-Micidial Go to original post
another pk hater !!!
well sorry but it's true !!! a good pk will never beat a good warden
first of all... warden have that ''no bleed feats'
2 :warden have a healing feats
3 everytime warden feint topside heavy i had the reflex to dodge + heavy ... he still got time to cancel switch guard to the side and parry .. wtf ... now throwing a zone cancel ... no choice ...it discouraged them from feinting too much
4 pk light speed as been so nerrfed that it can now be parry too !!
5 don'T even think to guardbreak him .. after a guardbreak all you can do is 3 stab .. again .. warden can't bleed ...theres that heavy feint light tha you can land to .. but the light make bleeding damage ... USELESS ...throw a heavy ... he will have the time to block it !!
6 step forward + heavy warden counter hit automatic !
7 deflect ? .. how can you deflect a turtle/feinter
8 if he shoulder bash i dodge + heavy ..but after he get it he will just cancel shoulder bash to guardbreak while i dodge ...so
only way to beat a warden ...get fully buffed ...cursed him never throw more than 2 light dodge back... throw some zone cancel dodge back ...pissed him off like that to force him to stop using the turtle meta ..and then when he decided himself to get more offensive i can deflect/counter ...sometime parry but it can still be a bit dangerous to try to parry because you never know when he will start back to feint/bait for the parry
and when i think about it ... some very good warden (sometime nobushi) manage to parry my zone too ...so...
ect ect
so for everyone who can't stand pk anymore .. get good and master the warden !!
also i think
Lawbringer :definetely not sub tier ... top tier !! ...he don't give a **** about people turtleing...
nobushi top tier : because i seen some nobushi that where really untouchable ... ( a parry = guarantee guardbreak=guarantee top heavy ... if out of stamina =guarantee guarbreak + push you on the ground + guarantee top heavy take out half of your life ONE SHOT... i think she got the biggest punish of all ... + the heavy bleed ... + zone cancel ,dodge heavy, viper retreat combo is destructive !!...her light atk are VERY FAST + make bleed ! ect ect )
berzerker with the new uninteruptible stance is now very good ... even he got deflected HEAD CRUSHER IS GUARANTEE .. probably the stronger attack of all after the shugoki charged heavy.... if dmg buffed or berzerk feat are on it one shot anyone !....
deflect=guardbreak ... guardbreak push to wall top heavy = destructive !!!
so would put it second tier
valkirye as an assassin is easy to couter but still so damn fkn fast and it seem like she never out of stamina !!..she can sweep or shield bash to throw you on the ground again and again so easyly ..making a HUUUUGE DIFFERENCE IN A TEAM FIGHT deffinitely not last tier !!at least sub tier
Kensei :....very equilibrate one of the best feinter ! ..can cancel unblockable atk to guardbreak or sidelight after guardbreak push on the wall +top heavy (destructive ) ...sub tier not third
shugoki ... complete **** in 1v1 but most usefull one in a team ......still would leave it third tier xD
raider deffinetely need a buff .. but his the one who hit the harder (if he can actually find a way to land his heavy)
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jesus i disagree with so many things i don't even know where to start
lb is tier 1 along w/ warden and wl. tons of damage, unblockable w/ guaranteed damage or if you dodge a free gb. his top lights are fast. his combos are very powerful. his unblockable is uninterruptible. he has that dash throw that can throw you off a ledge half way across a map and he has powerful punish options off parry and gb
peacekeeper might be a tier 2 character if you're talking about consoles but on pc she's pretty ****ty tbh. her lights can easily be blocked mid/high level and her lights get parried frequently in high tier. her zone is also very predictable and easily dealt w/. her side heavy is almost a guaranteed parry unless you happen to be doing it while they are attacking but if you're jumping around hoping for that chance you'll be gb. if you miss a gb she has a huge window where you can get a guaranteed gb on her. and her deflect is garbage
you need to place berserker in his own tier and certainly not in a tier w/ raider who can open with a hard hitting unblockable he can use for punishment and/or mixups. the rest of them offer so much in their own way that any sensible person would see them w/out having to say anything
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You only have feats in 4v4 and they are mostly turned of in tourneys so this feats arguments are invalid.Originally Posted by Maxime_Qc- Go to original post
Bit Yes warden is just op. Same as wl.
But pk is still really strong. It depends imo on ur Plattform. I Play in Xbox and this little Girl is a beast.
I Main valk and i have to say: u have no Tool to Open really Good turtles and Everything is punished with a gb or a top heavy...
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We are really talking about feats ? The most broken features in the game ?LOLOriginally Posted by Maxime_Qc- Go to original post
Lb doesn't any guaranteed. Most of the shove lights can be dodged or deflected by any competent assassin.
The opnly true 50/50 in the game are warden one and valkyre one. Not to mention as warden, Lb, warlord you can dodge the shove and start immediately a shoulder bash, headbutt. And if the class have any dodge attack its gg.
Nobushi top tier ? LOL
Warden better than pk ? Yeah, sure LOL
Only the warlord is better, just because he is completely broken to say the least. Has basically ALL and doesn't sacrifice nothing.
Precisely. valkyre medium tier ? LOLOriginally Posted by CoyoteXStarrk Go to original post
