it is TIER TIIIIIMEEEE! | Forums

[Netcode_err_404]

Yes, indeed.
I do agree with you. The playerbase is quite unfaire against the PK.
I play PK aswell and i am a person who uses her full kit.

1. I do really mean ONLY Light spam, no deflect or other things.
2.I am not against the GB and bleed stab, i do have overall a problem with the Bleed dmg of PK and Nobushi, it is just a tiny bit to strong.
A full bleed GB of the PK are 42 dmg in total (this is more than shugokis pre-nerf free heavy after the oni charge or stronger then a free heavy for the Raider)
Also she can combo into the wall or do a OOS punish after 2 stabs, thats a damn high dmg.

Nerf bleed a little bit, and change the mentalilty of the ppl to not spam lighs but thats not possible, so dropping her second light dmg. would be a good way (currently first light 17 and second 15 dmg)
Berserkers Combo dmg drops from Light 17 to 9 and side heavy from 33 to 20. And he isn't that fast as a PK.

... People will allways ***** about a char. The salt will never end...

But with nerfing bleed abit and her combo dmg abit, I would be fine with it.
Oh and buffing her deflect.
One of my (in my opinion "good" ideas ) for a deflect buff on her is, if you deflect and hit the light she slips past the enemy and WHilE she slips past the enemy he hits him. Also the enemy AND YOU lose the aim on the PK (because you are both back to back). This would be cooler than just hyperarmor...

Oh and about, Counq, i said he is a special case, because he is currently "good" but needs to rely to much on his shild bash and his charge falls behind.

Overall i don't want big changes, i want small thing to chang to balance the chars.

Pk light spam is a problem for 2 reasons.

1) Spamming r1 is not hard, every idiot can do it
2) lights do high damage and are insane fast

So here we have 2 scenarios.

1) im clearly better than you and I parry god every attack
2) You will win even if I'm stronger just because its very hard to counter.

The rateo between how much hard is a class to use, and the effectivenes of the said class is quite important.

Pk, ignore that things, because its ultra effective, and requires little to no skill at all to do well against the majority of the opponents.

Using her full kit may require some practice, but who cares if the best way to win is pressing r1 ?

Same for warlords. Is insane how easy is WL, and how strong is.

[CaTaStR0Fa]

Well i hate orochi too but people gonna cry so i say he is balanced... and i agree with you about lb.. lb needs faster guard stance speed and the 50/50 is lame if you know it you can punish it so easy but people dont get it

[Netcode_err_404]

Well i hate orochi too but people gonna cry so i say he is balanced... and i agree with you about lb.. lb needs faster guard stance speed and the 50/50 is lame if you know it you can punish it so easy but people dont get it

Is not about hating him or not.

He is not balanced, because he has a list of useless comboes nobody use, because top ligh and ZA are better by far and ultra strong. He should be buffed in some aspects and nerfed in others. Theres no sense in giving him a god tier fast top light and garbage slow sides,


To consider the Lb a top tier class you eiter just started, or never started to play.

[S0Mi_xD]

i agree with you that the sweep is easy to dodge...but the thing is that valk can mix it with everything so you cant possibly know what her next combo..she can gb you,she can hit heavy ,hit fast lights can sweep at anymoment in this combos . LB after the shove can hit light heavy or gb you nothing more.Orochi is in good balance but using the flick and za he is so strong

Be honest my friend, at least let her have her mix ups like every other char (except Conque - he can't feint). Those are her strong side, without this what do you think she would be?

The only real problem i have with LB is his hyperarmor in his shovel, the rest is fine ( and his magic range with the shovel, but i don't think it is a conection problem) it is inteded like this.

There no magnetic range, you just dodge too early

And I like to remember you, we rely on p2p.


The only magnetic attack is the demon ebrace, sometimes it just act like a black hole.

Yes his magnatic range exists, is the same phenomenom like shugokis.
And no, i do know when i dodge wrong. if you want i can post some vids.

Yes, i considered p2p. Aswell consol play (because i play on console)

Orochi is not balanced.

Giving a full list of useless combo, except 2 that are better than any other combo is just unbalancing at its finest.

He has a double top light that is

1) faster than a side light
2) does double the damage

Whats the point in giving him a super powerfull top light, and useless slow side ? His top light does the same damage of a heavy, thats basically means his heavies are useless. Then he has a glitched ultra fast ZA, whic is not punishable unless you guess right with a parry.

He is far from beeing balanced honestly. Same with spamkeeper.


LB is too slow to be considered top tier, sorry. He is mediocre, poor mixups, predictable, the only pro he has its his "fake 50/50" that every assassin will avoid, when they will nerf the block > shove ( because its lame and people abuse the fact you can block all you want.) will be trash tier again Unless they really buff his speed.


His top heavy is 1000ms even my grandma could parry it.

Seriously, i play orochi and i fight many of them.
1. Top light is easy blocked even if it is fastern then side lights, but ok, i agree with you that his combo dmg is abit high (same as pk) Light basic 17 and light combo 15 (thanks for this i forgot about this)
Yes in dmg the top double light overshadows side heavies in dmg but not the top, and heavies are still usefull to attack when the opponent do not expect it or to feint.

2. And nooow i need to disagree with you, because every idiot waits for top lights you can throw unexpected sidelides (thats what i am doing and it works well)
Dodge forward but delay abit and hit from the side with a light, works good because most players think there will come a dodge attack or a top light.

3.The only big problem Orochi has is the zoneflicker bug and zone coming out to fast, but this is should be fixed with flicker bug.
Yes Orochi is in some ways similar to the PK, you know why? because they are assassins - assassins are build quite same in dmg and some other things.

4. here Again PLS DO READ THE MEANING OF THIS TIER LIST. it is not about POWER and i do not consider LB as a "TOP TIER"
I do not talk about LBs block > shove the only thing needs to really go is his hyperarmor in shovel.
Yes he is medicore and this is quite balanced.

Ok i need to rewrite the list abit. thanks

A side question, what chars you are playing more frequent ?
I do MAIN Berserker, but i also play Valk, orochi, Raider, PK, Shugoki, Kensei, and Conqu - i dropped warden because it isn't my type and a friend of mine mains him (most time we brawl, so no double chars), I leard warlord and LB but do not play them, only about Nobushi i don't know much)

[Netcode_err_404]

Be honest my friend, at least let her have her mix ups like every other char (except Conque - he can't feint). Those are her strong side, without this what do you think she would be?

The only real problem i have with LB is his hyperarmor in his shovel, the rest is fine ( and his magic range with the shovel, but i don't think it is a conection problem) it is inteded like this.


Yes his magnatic range exists, is the same phenomenom like shugokis.
And no, i do know when i dodge wrong. if you want i can post some vids.

Yes, i considered p2p. Aswell consol play (because i play on console)



Seriously, i play orochi and i fight many of them.
1. Top light is easy blocked even if it is fastern then side lights, but ok, i agree with you that his combo dmg is abit high (same as pk) Light basic 17 and light combo 15 (thanks for this i forgot about this)
Yes in dmg the top double light overshadows side heavies in dmg but not the top, and heavies are still usefull to attack when the opponent do not expect it or to feint.

2. And nooow i need to disagree with you, because every idiot waits for top lights you can throw unexpected sidelides (thats what i am doing and it works well)
Dodge forward but delay abit and hit from the side with a light, works good because most players think there will come a dodge attack or a top light.

3.The only big problem Orochi has is the zoneflicker bug and zone coming out to fast, but this is should be fixed with flicker bug.
Yes Orochi is in some ways similar to the PK, you know why? because they are assassins - assassins are build quite same in dmg and some other things.

4. here Again PLS DO READ THE MEANING OF THIS TIER LIST. it is not about POWER and i do not consider LB as a "TOP TIER"
I do not talk about LBs block > shove the only thing needs to really go is his hyperarmor in shovel.
Yes he is medicore and this is quite balanced.

Ok i need to rewrite the list abit. thanks

A side question, what chars you are playing more frequent ?
I do MAIN Berserker, but i also play Valk, orochi, Raider, PK, Shugoki, Kensei, and Conqu - i dropped warden because it isn't my type and a friend of mine mains him (most time we brawl, so no double chars), I leard warlord and LB but do not play them, only about Nobushi i don't know much)

Not all classes have side attacks.

You want hyper armor on shove gone ? Not a chance, unless you make it ultra rapid like the headbutt. Right now shove is dodged by everyone.

I play LB, and kensei mainly. Then i play sometimes with raider and shugoki.,

The only real problem with Lb is the"50/50" ( which is not, at least not completely) after a block. And just because ubisoft do not want cooldowns on this game, and people can abuse it. Otherwise is aweak class, Slow and predictable. Classified as "disabler", when he is not.

[S0Mi_xD]

Not all classes have side attacks.

You want hyper armor on shove gone ? Not a chance, unless you make it ultra rapid like the headbutt. Right now shove is dodged by everyone.

I play LB, and kensei mainly. Then i play sometimes with raider and shugoki.,

The only real problem with Lb is the"50/50" ( which is not, at least not completely) after a block. And just because ubisoft do not want cooldowns on this game, and people can abuse it. Otherwise is aweak class, Slow and predictable. Classified as "disabler", when he is not.

If you misunderstood me, i do not talk about side dash attack, i actually mean normal side lights, every class has side lights.
Also i use combos with orochi, i just don't use them that much to not be that predictable.
Also his OOS punish with with 2 his 2 top heavy chain is strong (55 dmg) his max punish.

The thing is, the way you discribe orochi is nearly the same way you can look at all classes (except zone flicker).

I agree headbutt is abit to good (thats why Warlord is one of the 2 top in my list)
Actually the headbutt is just to safe (you can't even GB him after you dodged headbutt) and gives free dmg (even if its only 10 dmg)
It is dodgable i do dodge it on consol but shovel is nearly same as hard to dodge as headbutt.
Sure if the headbutt or the shovel comes in a moment i know it comes, i can dodge both easy, but the art in this game to be good lies in the abililty to be unpredictable.

The "50/50" i do think is ok.

[S0Mi_xD]

Pk light spam is a problem for 2 reasons.

1) Spamming r1 is not hard, every idiot can do it
2) lights do high damage and are insane fast

So here we have 2 scenarios.

1) im clearly better than you and I parry god every attack
2) You will win even if I'm stronger just because its very hard to counter.

The rateo between how much hard is a class to use, and the effectivenes of the said class is quite important.

Pk, ignore that things, because its ultra effective, and requires little to no skill at all to do well against the majority of the opponents.

Using her full kit may require some practice, but who cares if the best way to win is pressing r1 ?

Same for warlords. Is insane how easy is WL, and how strong is.

Yep, thats why both classes are In tier 1 and 2 in my list

[cragar212]

Every competitive tournament played disagrees with your personal tier list.

But everyone is entitled to their opinion

[S0Mi_xD]

Every competitive tournament played disagrees with your personal tier list.

But everyone is entitled to their opinion

Talking for everyone is abit farfetched.
But ok.

Pls, could you read the first lines of the thread again?

I edited it and put in an explanation in, how to understand this "tier list"

[Netcode_err_404]

If you misunderstood me, i do not talk about side dash attack, i actually mean normal side lights, every class has side lights.
Also i use combos with orochi, i just don't use them that much to not be that predictable.
Also his OOS punish with with 2 his 2 top heavy chain is strong (55 dmg) his max punish.

The thing is, the way you discribe orochi is nearly the same way you can look at all classes (except zone flicker).

I agree headbutt is abit to good (thats why Warlord is one of the 2 top in my list)
Actually the headbutt is just to safe (you can't even GB him after you dodged headbutt) and gives free dmg (even if its only 10 dmg)
It is dodgable i do dodge it on consol but shovel is nearly same as hard to dodge as headbutt.
Sure if the headbutt or the shovel comes in a moment i know it comes, i can dodge both easy, but the art in this game to be good lies in the abililty to be unpredictable.

The "50/50" i do think is ok.

On pc shove is dodgeable by everyone. even by shogokis