Idea to fix flicker and op zone attacks | Forums

[MisterGuyMan]

I don't think Flicker breaks anything. Even with flicker, Orochi is still mid tier. PK is top tier with or without flicker.

[Netcode_err_404]

I don't think Flicker breaks anything. Even with flicker, Orochi is still mid tier. PK is top tier with or without flicker.

No, i've lost countless time against orochi in the last decisive blow just because flicker tricked me, its broken.

[MisterGuyMan]

No, i've lost countless time against orochi in the last decisive blow just because flicker tricked me, its broken.

Orochi is still a mid tier character so, no, no single move of his is broken. People also can react to it at higher levels of play.

[Blasto95]

No, i've lost countless time against orochi in the last decisive blow just because flicker tricked me, its broken.

And please tell me how Orochi would stand a chance against anyone with these suggested changes? Im all for fixing flicker. (even though you are ACTUALLY feinting a light attack and costing more stamina). Its a bug and not intended. But ZA is currently crucial for some classes. Warden and Warlord stand out as classes that I think could easily survive a big ZA nerf. However PK and Orochi would instantly be gimped. This doesnt mean ZA is necessary for these heroes. ZA can be nerfed, but certain heroes cant be ignored along with these changes. PK and Orochi would have to be compensated for a heavy nerf.

[Blasto95]

The "turtle meta" isn't there to be used as an excuse for defending broken shi*, m8.

Broke things are broke, no matter what. There's no justification. You don't justify OP stuff, bugs, glitches because abusing it helps take care of another problem. If anything, such abuse provides remedy for only SOME, and makes life even harder for those who have no such broken stuff, or have no intention of abusing such.

We keep giving excuses for certain class players in abusing those, and then what? Those who do not abuse OP stuff, or bugs and glitches are faced not only with the meta, but also hordes of people using broken stuff and making up excuses. It victimizes honest players.

I said im ok with fixing it....at the same time though fix the Defensive meta. Otherwise you're just making an even worse problem...

you know, the exact same way they fixed Raiders unlock tech AND buffed him. This way he was never insanely OP or completely trash. they fixed both issues together.
ZA should be looked at the same way. Either fix/nerf it and nerf the defensive meta, or buff characters who will be severely effected by a ZA change.

If theres no justification for OP things, then why is Defensive meta not being discussed along with ANY offensive changes.

[Netcode_err_404]

And please tell me how Orochi would stand a chance against anyone with these suggested changes? Im all for fixing flicker. (even though you are ACTUALLY feinting a light attack and costing more stamina). Its a bug and not intended. But ZA is currently crucial for some classes. Warden and Warlord stand out as classes that I think could easily survive a big ZA nerf. However PK and Orochi would instantly be gimped. This doesnt mean ZA is necessary for these heroes. ZA can be nerfed, but certain heroes cant be ignored along with these changes. PK and Orochi would have to be compensated for a heavy nerf.

Whats your point ? Orochi is a safe class that can deal massive damage. The whole class in bad designed because there are 0 reasons to use side lights when top one does massive damage and is quickier. Instead wasting time in more heroes devs focus should be around fixing the defensive meta and in reworking some classes.

Even with only 2 viable attacks orichi is still a very strong charcter. I would nerf top light, buff sides light and side heavies.

Compared to kensei he is top tier and only sacrifices 5 hp

[MisterGuyMan]

Whats your point ? Orochi is a safe class that can deal massive damage. The whole class in bad designed because there are 0 reasons to use side lights when top one does massive damage and is quickier. Instead wasting time in more heroes devs focus should be around fixing the defensive meta and in reworking some classes.

Even with only 2 viable attacks orichi is still a very strong charcter. I would nerf top light, buff sides light and side heavies.

Compared to kensei he is top tier and only sacrifices 5 hp

Orochi is barely viable in high level play and he needs those two attacks to be even at that level. There's no reason to balance him by Kensei standards because Kensei isn't a good character. Every character should be balanced with high level play in mind so the comparison should be with Warlord, PK and Warden not Kensei. Humping Orochi would just make one more u viable character and be the high level gameplay would be worse off. We at least *sometimes* see Orochi do well and we wouldn't have even that if we nerfed light attack.

[Netcode_err_404]

Orochi is barely viable in high level play and he needs those two attacks to be even at that level. There's no reason to balance him by Kensei standards because Kensei isn't a good character. Every character should be balanced with high level play in mind so the comparison should be with Warlord, PK and Warden not Kensei. Humping Orochi would just make one more u viable character and be the high level gameplay would be worse off. We at least *sometimes* see Orochi do well and we wouldn't have even that if we nerfed light attack.

There isn't any high lvl play on fh, because spamming safe attacks and turtling can barely be called play

[Netcode_err_404]

Basically how all Lawbs are played, you mean.

Yes and even then they are still ignored by top players because warlords abd pk are better.

One if these is even beeing banned cuz too broken.

But yes i guess LB are the problem here, if we nerf the lb people will stop to ignore him because warlords are better in every aspects.

I guess sypherpk will use a LB in the next competition instead his warlord.

[Knight_Raime]

That would just make it too predictable. People can already decently block warden's and orochi's zone. The way to balance zones is to make them unsafe on block.
As for flicker all they have to do is adjust the timing on the buffer the system has when it comes to attacks.

With pk you kind of just have to watch someone's pattern to know when to switch guard to block. wardens can be like that as well. But it's not as bad.
orochi's though is super easy. all you have to do is pay attention to the body. if he starts twirling at all just switch guard.