Ubisoft, I believe Conquerors are fine. | Forums

[TheLastPandaa]

Conqueror basically negates any decent mixups. The fact his guard is so op and you HAVE to respect it, means you must always attack only 2 open zones - meaning every single attack you do is truly a 50/50 chance you can continue a combo.

If you forget for even a second where his original block was and you try to mix him up and swing at it, all you do is screw yourself over, with absolutely no input from the conq except existing. He can literally cancel your combo because either one of you were forgetful, lol.

That's really strong. I'm not sure if it's "can't guarantee an execute in any situation no matter what" strong, but it is ridiculous. I reallllly hate fighting him, because he can have less than 50 IQ and still come out on top in trades or avoiding pressure, so when a conq player is actually smart at all, it's hell trying to deal meaningful damage. Getting shield bash mixup'd against a wall is probably one of the most frustrating things in the game, because it takes so long to animate once it start hitting you and you literally can't do anything about it except in very limited windows.

People who say he's inherently weak, I am suspicious they just don't understand the game that well. He does require a really high skill ceiling to close out fights - because he lacks options to guarantee damage, much like Raider - so obviously that is a sore point in a game based on closing out a fight.

But he is very strong. A few tweaks would make him magic, and frankly, probably over the top at that point.

Emote game on point, too.

I do not agree with a few things you just sayed, so i will try to go on by one:

Every single attack you do (as a conq) is truly a 50/50 chance you can continue a combo.
Wrong. Every atack you do is a golden oportunity for your oponent to parry you. If your oponent doesnt parry you and just block, still not a 50/50 chance for you as a conqueror because all you do is SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUPER SLOW. It could be if as a conq you had the chance to cancel the SB but you can not. At this point i have tryed all posible combo mixups with the conc.

1) Heavy+heavy+fullblock stance to cancel the second heavy+sb
2) Heavy+heavy+fullblock stance to cancel the second heavy+light.
3) Light (out of reach)+light+heavy+fullblock to cancel it+ sb
4) Light (out of reach)+light+heavy+fullblock to cancel it+ light
5)Heavy+heavy+fullblock stance to cancel the second heavy+Gb
6) Light (out of reach)+light+heavy+fullblock to cancel it+ Gb
Same with ligh feints with fullblock, etc etc


The result is allways the same vs a good player: You only waste your stamina and let your self open for geting punish.

Getting shield bash mixup'd against a wall is probably one of the most frustrating things in the game
Play smart, choose your battleground. Do not fight a conq near a wall nor spam heavys at him. As simply as that. Would you try to fight a Wl near a cliff? or a SHugo in a bridge?

But he is very strong. A few tweaks would make him magic, and frankly, probably over the top at that point.
Wrong. He is not strong. He has high defence, ok, but he does the lowest dmg in the game with his normal hits and is only not a total failure of heroe due to the defensive meta and his hability to gb after blocking a heavy. And those tweaks you talk is what all this goes about. Conq allready was over the top point before 1'5 and only a few tweaks (just for using your words) were needed to take him out from the top 3 tier list. After those few tweaks Conq became just a bit better than Raider and zerk.


***
#SaveTheConqueror.
#DeusVult.

[Jarl.Felix]

Conqueror basically negates any decent mixups. The fact his guard is so op and you HAVE to respect it, means you must always attack only 2 open zones - meaning every single attack you do is truly a 50/50 chance you can continue a combo.

If you forget for even a second where his original block was and you try to mix him up and swing at it, all you do is screw yourself over, with absolutely no input from the conq except existing. He can literally cancel your combo because either one of you were forgetful, lol.

That's really strong. I'm not sure if it's "can't guarantee an execute in any situation no matter what" strong, but it is ridiculous. I reallllly hate fighting him, because he can have less than 50 IQ and still come out on top in trades or avoiding pressure, so when a conq player is actually smart at all, it's hell trying to deal meaningful damage. Getting shield bash mixup'd against a wall is probably one of the most frustrating things in the game, because it takes so long to animate once it start hitting you and you literally can't do anything about it except in very limited windows.

People who say he's inherently weak, I am suspicious they just don't understand the game that well. He does require a really high skill ceiling to close out fights - because he lacks options to guarantee damage, much like Raider - so obviously that is a sore point in a game based on closing out a fight.

But he is very strong. A few tweaks would make him magic, and frankly, probably over the top at that point.

Emote game on point, too.

I'm sorry, what are you talking about ?

Who on earth do you think relies on combos to beat a conq ?! In a top game, dude, you dont go for combos like insane. Cause decent players know how to block or parry regardless the class he plays. You simply apply feint, dodges, simple hits, zone attacks and guardbrakes. It works like magic ! You don't cry because a conq blocked your first hit and you can't come with an uninteruptible ! The game is not made to spam same buttons. You don't do ALL your combos against a conq, so what ? The conq can't do **** against you so you're sound and safe !

And when conq can do nothing but limited and SAME stuff against all their heroes you know there is something wrong with devs.

[Joseph_2017]

Conqueror basically negates any decent mixups. The fact his guard is so op and you HAVE to respect it, means you must always attack only 2 open zones - meaning every single attack you do is truly a 50/50 chance you can continue a combo.

If you forget for even a second where his original block was and you try to mix him up and swing at it, all you do is screw yourself over, with absolutely no input from the conq except existing. He can literally cancel your combo because either one of you were forgetful, lol.

That's really strong. I'm not sure if it's "can't guarantee an execute in any situation no matter what" strong, but it is ridiculous. I reallllly hate fighting him, because he can have less than 50 IQ and still come out on top in trades or avoiding pressure, so when a conq player is actually smart at all, it's hell trying to deal meaningful damage. Getting shield bash mixup'd against a wall is probably one of the most frustrating things in the game, because it takes so long to animate once it start hitting you and you literally can't do anything about it except in very limited windows.

People who say he's inherently weak, I am suspicious they just don't understand the game that well. He does require a really high skill ceiling to close out fights - because he lacks options to guarantee damage, much like Raider - so obviously that is a sore point in a game based on closing out a fight.

But he is very strong. A few tweaks would make him magic, and frankly, probably over the top at that point.

Emote game on point, too.

Well said man, couldn't agree with you more.

[Jasado]

I do not agree with a few things you just sayed, so i will try to go on by one:

Every single attack you do (as a conq) is truly a 50/50 chance you can continue a combo.
Wrong. Every atack you do is a golden oportunity for your oponent to parry you. If your oponent doesnt parry you and just block, still not a 50/50 chance for you as a conqueror because all you do is SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUPER SLOW. It could be if as a conq you had the chance to cancel the SB but you can not. At this point i have tryed all posible combo mixups with the conc.

1) Heavy+heavy+fullblock stance to cancel the second heavy+sb
2) Heavy+heavy+fullblock stance to cancel the second heavy+light.
3) Light (out of reach)+light+heavy+fullblock to cancel it+ sb
4) Light (out of reach)+light+heavy+fullblock to cancel it+ light
5)Heavy+heavy+fullblock stance to cancel the second heavy+Gb
6) Light (out of reach)+light+heavy+fullblock to cancel it+ Gb
Same with ligh feints with fullblock, etc etc


The result is allways the same vs a good player: You only waste your stamina and let your self open for geting punish.

Getting shield bash mixup'd against a wall is probably one of the most frustrating things in the game
Play smart, choose your battleground. Do not fight a conq near a wall nor spam heavys at him. As simply as that. Would you try to fight a Wl near a cliff? or a SHugo in a bridge?

But he is very strong. A few tweaks would make him magic, and frankly, probably over the top at that point.
Wrong. He is not strong. He has high defence, ok, but he does the lowest dmg in the game with his normal hits and is only not a total failure of heroe due to the defensive meta and his hability to gb after blocking a heavy. And those tweaks you talk is what all this goes about. Conq allready was over the top point before 1'5 and only a few tweaks (just for using your words) were needed to take him out from the top 3 tier list. After those few tweaks Conq became just a bit better than Raider and zerk.


***
#SaveTheConqueror.
#DeusVult.

You misquoted me and then attacked the information you falsely implied I said.

You quote me saying this "Every single attack you do (as a conq) is truly a 50/50 chance you can continue a combo." and you added that parenthesis bit, as well as taking it out of context.

The context was attacking the conqueror. Not attacking AS a conqueror.

You go on this tirade to tear apart points you made up and putting words I never said into my mouth. What?

Secondly, your issue is that everything leaves you open to parry? Welcome to For Honor. Water is wet. I'm sorry the character requires you to parry while also doing half of someone's life as damage at the same time, how terrible for you.

As I've said, I notice very well he has issues closing out confirmed damage. It should be an intended weakness for as defensive as he is, but currently, it's not in a good spot.

Your second point about choosing your battleground - you don't always have that option, and you have to respect the natural build of a map. Pretending there isn't infinite environment that either instantly kills you or plenty to be bumped against is just disingenuous. I can't teleport me and conq to an open meadow just because I feel like it.

You are correct that if you get shield bashed in close quarters, that's partially your own fault - my expression was that it is just frustrating because the pressure and response windows are very intense, which shows he definitely has strengths. You don't get to write that off just because you have to insist conq is super weak.

You say he is not strong, but even the Devs confirmed he is top tier and strong statistically. They recognize he has some issues but you shouldn't pretend he only has issues and is totally no good.

Raider has some serious issues and is still fairly good. Most characters core design is fairly powerful, they just need some sanding of the edges.

[Antonioj26]

You misquoted me and then attacked the information you falsely implied I said.

You quote me saying this "Every single attack you do (as a conq) is truly a 50/50 chance you can continue a combo." and you added that parenthesis bit, as well as taking it out of context.

The context was attacking the conqueror. Not attacking AS a conqueror.

You go on this tirade to tear apart points you made up and putting words I never said into my mouth. What?

Secondly, your issue is that everything leaves you open to parry? Welcome to For Honor. Water is wet. I'm sorry the character requires you to parry while also doing half of someone's life as damage at the same time, how terrible for you.

As I've said, I notice very well he has issues closing out confirmed damage. It should be an intended weakness for as defensive as he is, but currently, it's not in a good spot.

Your second point about choosing your battleground - you don't always have that option, and you have to respect the natural build of a map. Pretending there isn't infinite environment that either instantly kills you or plenty to be bumped against is just disingenuous. I can't teleport me and conq to an open meadow just because I feel like it.

You are correct that if you get shield bashed in close quarters, that's partially your own fault - my expression was that it is just frustrating because the pressure and response windows are very intense, which shows he definitely has strengths. You don't get to write that off just because you have to insist conq is super weak.

You say he is not strong, but even the Devs confirmed he is top tier and strong statistically. They recognize he has some issues but you shouldn't pretend he only has issues and is totally no good.

Raider has some serious issues and is still fairly good. Most characters core design is fairly powerful, they just need some sanding of the edges.

Ubinoty in this very thread said that he's not in a great place what are you talking about? What is this 50/50 you can continue a combo? Anyone past the point of mediocre doesn't do combos because they are easily blocked or parried. what attack does conqueror have that does half of someone's life? His heavy does 25 damage and if you are getting hit with a chargeable attack outside of a knock down then that's something you need to work on. If that's your argument then raider is overpowered too since his light to zone attack combo on knockdown does 65 damage and a fully charged R2 for conq does 45. He's got the worst damage in the game while being one of the slowest and his only opener is highly punishable if you miss. He's trash

[Antonioj26]

That Vid is a joke if it should underline your statement. Those PK's were bad, didnt even block one of his Lights. The Warden, too. Just bad players vs a good Conq. Do you play PC? We can do a Custom Match if you like.

Lol all those raw heavies that land. This is your proof that conq is good?

[TheLastPandaa]

You misquoted me and then attacked the information you falsely implied I said.

You quote me saying this "Every single attack you do (as a conq) is truly a 50/50 chance you can continue a combo." and you added that parenthesis bit, as well as taking it out of context.

The context was attacking the conqueror. Not attacking AS a conqueror.

You go on this tirade to tear apart points you made up and putting words I never said into my mouth. What?

Secondly, your issue is that everything leaves you open to parry? Welcome to For Honor. Water is wet. I'm sorry the character requires you to parry while also doing half of someone's life as damage at the same time, how terrible for you.

As I've said, I notice very well he has issues closing out confirmed damage. It should be an intended weakness for as defensive as he is, but currently, it's not in a good spot.

Your second point about choosing your battleground - you don't always have that option, and you have to respect the natural build of a map. Pretending there isn't infinite environment that either instantly kills you or plenty to be bumped against is just disingenuous. I can't teleport me and conq to an open meadow just because I feel like it.

You are correct that if you get shield bashed in close quarters, that's partially your own fault - my expression was that it is just frustrating because the pressure and response windows are very intense, which shows he definitely has strengths. You don't get to write that off just because you have to insist conq is super weak.

You say he is not strong, but even the Devs confirmed he is top tier and strong statistically. They recognize he has some issues but you shouldn't pretend he only has issues and is totally no good.

Raider has some serious issues and is still fairly good. Most characters core design is fairly powerful, they just need some sanding of the edges.

I apologize. I completely misunderstood what you were saying. English is not my native language.

Never the less i feel we are talking about diferent aspects of the conqueror. When i talk about the conq i am ONLY refering to his performance at high lv play/turney 1v1 without using glitches and exploits.

Now, talking about the maps: You can get your self in a situation where avoiding walls is hard, but good positioning is consider also skill. As i sayed b4, some other characters are WAY more dangerous near a wall, bridge or a cliff than conq. There is no point (in my opinion) to complain about that especific aspect of the conq.

And once again... the devs might have their data, but they really do not know about their game. Remember what happen with the PK? Acording to their data the problem with her was her side dodge atack. Aparently her light atacks were completly ok and working as intended....

And when you talk about the Raider... come on... you can not be serious when you say he still fairly good. He can be firly good on 4vs4 modes and medium lv duels but at high lv play (1vs1) he is trash if you do not use glitches and exploits.

[Joseph_2017]

Actually, according to community testings, Conq attacks are on average much faster than most classes. Light attacks are generally around average, but heavies are noticeably faster than most.

Conq side heavies are actually as fast as the Warden's ZA -- 30fps@PC = 0.5s activation.

Gee, surprising just how much perceptions can be misleading, huh.


(ps) ...which pretty much confirms my theory on how the overall situation, complexity, variety of attack can make it difficult to purely defend on reaction. The Conq actions are limited, quite predictable, and the variables are few -- which is why it is easier to block Conq side heavies despite it being as fast as Warden ZA. In turn, when facing a Warden, there's so much to consider, the pressure is high, and his goddarn vortex so menacing, that it's hard to react to it despite it being the same as Conq side heavies. Also, Warden ZA motion is a lot more compact, feeling like a sudden Iaijutsu strike with minimal motion, whereas the Conq sides are visually telegraphed in a very pronounced manner.

Hm, If that's true maybe a slight tweak in his animations and maybe a 3rd heavy on his combo can really help him without overdoing the buff.