Demons Embrace not fair? | Forums

[VraguVrag]

Hey,

I am really on the bottom of skill level but trying hard.
So I really rape this shugoki with like 6 hits, and he just needs to hit 1 button to one shot me when on such low HP.
Isnt this ********?
I know you will say, noob just dodge it...
Well I didn't, but neither did he dodged/parried or blocked 6 hits that got him to 10%...

It feels like with him, if you miss that 1 time only, its done..
What do you think, you agree its silly?

[Butonfly]

In principle, a too drastic of a shift between win-loss is indeed a bit cheesy.

But think of it this way. Be that as it may, the extreme damage of the DemE is compensation for the fact that it's a lumbering, slow, easy to dodge, and self-damaging -- probably the most penalized skill within the whole game. So it's essentially a high-risk, high-return move.

Unless you're saying the Shug needs to be totally castrated down to uselessness, if you want that extreme damage and self-healing to go away, then it mans quite a bit of those penalties going away. At the top of my head I'd calculate that it's gonna be sped up, easier to hit with, removed of the self-damage, probably lowered stamina cost as well.

Depending on the point of view, you might actually hate the Shug even more.

But a parry into a GB into a wall throw isnt lumbering, slow, easy to dodge, or self-damaging, and grants a free embrace.

None of those factors matter outside of 1v1 for that matter, when the shug can wait for his target to be distracted by a teammate.

It's unbalanced in its current design.

[Felis_Menari]

But a parry into a GB into a wall throw isnt lumbering, slow, easy to dodge, or self-damaging, and grants a free embrace.

None of those factors matter outside of 1v1 for that matter, when the shug can wait for his target to be distracted by a teammate.

It's unbalanced in its current design.

It is the ultimate maneuver when it comes to ganking, after all. Not only that, but it allows the Shug to do something no other character can do in 1v1 and 2v2; restore lost health. A single wall throw with a guaranteed Demon's Embrace can make or break fights. The health regen is no joke.

[DrinkinMyStella]

its very cheesy but a huge risk, he will kill himself if missed.

[Dude_of_Valor]

Hey,

I am really on the bottom of skill level but trying hard.
So I really rape this shugoki with like 6 hits, and he just needs to hit 1 button to one shot me when on such low HP.
Isnt this ********?
I know you will say, noob just dodge it...
Well I didn't, but neither did he dodged/parried or blocked 6 hits that got him to 10%...

It feels like with him, if you miss that 1 time only, its done..
What do you think, you agree its silly?

Two tips that serve me well when fighting Shugoki.

1) If they demons embrace you, soon as you are up unlock and roll away. They often go for a swing with the club or try to GB you. Best to unlock during the animation.

2) When they are low on health do not get close. This is the one shot you talk about and yes it sucks but keeping distance is key. It is really hard however to finish them off due to hyper armour, especially for certain classes.

Bear in mind this is what I use as a Warden and it might be other classes have better options.

[Brologna_Xeno]

As a Goki I'd welcome a faster/shorter Demon Embrace so it'd more viable when outnumbered.

The health tap aspect of it is warranted. I'd love to see Ubi's statistics on this but I safely assume Shugoki has the worst execution-on-kill rate of any hero.

Shug doesn't have an execution off GB kill like pretty much any other Hero, save Conq. GBs go to lights or Demons Ball. Top kill methods knockdown charged heavy, demon ball, demon ball environment kill, hit trades, demon embrace. Shugoki has to do extra work to get an execution kill. Heavies are so easily parried.

So I see Demons Embrace as sort of a execution alternative, since the executes are less frequent with him compared to other heroes.

But unlike executions, Shugoki stays stuck in Demon Embrace's animation lock, even if he's getting attacked. The animation lock of the attack is just as punishing to Goki as it is to opponents.

And 1vs1 2vs2, Goki stamina state without gear is so atrocious. 1 pommel strike from a raider and a GB/CGB attempt later and Shug is in exhausted state.

[Blasto95]

You want demon embrace removed? Come up with something to replace it.

Cant just say screw this screw that, nerf this, nerf that, and have absolutely no logical solution. Remove Demon Embrace, and Shugs the worst Hero in the game. By Far. Remove his ability to one shot, not game breaking for Shug, but its a different mechanic that no one else has.

Think its cheap and easy? Stop complaining and go play Shug.

[RenfieldX]

Hey,

I am really on the bottom of skill level but trying hard.
So I really rape this shugoki with like 6 hits, and he just needs to hit 1 button to one shot me when on such low HP.
Isnt this ********?
I know you will say, noob just dodge it...
Well I didn't, but neither did he dodged/parried or blocked 6 hits that got him to 10%...

It feels like with him, if you miss that 1 time only, its done..
What do you think, you agree its silly?

In general I think that Demon's Embrace is fine - the risk vs reward is pretty balanced as it's fairly easy to dodge and they lose a significant amount of health if they miss.

I do agree that the move being an instant kill when the Shugoki is at low health is garbage and should be changed, and I play Shugoki a lot. It should either just do the same damage that it normally does, or the Shugoki should die if they miss Demon's Embrace when they're at low health.

[DrinkinMyStella]

i think it shouldn't kill 100% health i think 50% + a HP boost is sufficient

[Felis_Menari]

Honestly, if I were a Shugoki player, I'd rather have...

(1) self-HP damage removed
(2) self-HP regeneration on hit removed
(3) damage to opponent normalized around something similar to a good top-heavy strike
(4) increased damage resistance during activation

What do you guys think? Win-Win?

I've been saying the same basic thing for a while now. Maybe even speed up the throw-off animation after the back break, to reduce vulnerability? Then again, maybe Shug players would prefer it as is; better to gank people with that way, lol.