Lawbringer's "50/50" | Forums

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Theres no 50/50.

There is an opener mixup.

Light after shove can be deflected, so from a very little damage you can eat a free GB from a zerker, a free damage for pk and orochi.
Most damage output come from that opener, because Lb is so ****ing slow, you won't fool everyone in feinting a 1100 ms heav, and lights are still pretty slow too.

The mixups from block I agree should not exist, but as I said I would trade that for a feintable shove like wardens 24/7

Sorry, but if you think LB is top tier, you are just bad. Lb is still trash tier withinh half of the roaster. Unless you just play passive with only block > shove, in that case im sorry, is not the class, but the game that is broken, because conqs can do the same, but better.

SHove mixup from neutral can be dodged by reaction, and every dodge attack will be guaranteed. So yes lB is effective against characters without bashes and dodge attacks, basically versus the non viable classes. GG

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You want me to quote the exact words you've said in a thread that was aimed about the PK, where you've denounced people for being "charlatans" when they say they could reasonably react against PK attacks?

Don't you think you're possibly showing a bit of a bias and a double standard here? How about some consistency? If the PK light-lights are difficult to counter by reaction alone, then what makes the Lawb shove-50/50s suddenly possible to dodge, block, parry on reaction as you say?

If you claim you can do that against a Lawb, then how in the world possibly can you call other people who might be doing the same thing against PKs, "charlatans?"

Every idiot can dodge a shove now, its a fact. I can show you even now.

From a block is a different story, but CAN be deflkected, Some classes like wardens and warlord, can easily unblockable spam A LB for some free damage without any risk of getting blocked.

As I explained wardens can easily shut down a LB, because as soon as you dodge a shove you can start your vortex, which is 2x times more lethal.

And assassin can just dodge attack after beeing shoved, the hit will be guaranteed unless theres some lag involved.

Kensei dodge seems do not work, you can ge GB during the animation.


There is a reason why the best players do not use a LB to cheese tourneys. And they won't start now.


Said that I would trade tis fake 50/50 to more speed to attacks and a better shove from neutral, if you buff us like this, you can take my block shove for all I care.

Class is too slow to start a combo without at least one easy hit, and if people find a way to negate the shove, you are useless

Speakig about the charlatans, they can proove me wrong, if thet sign up to the next 1v1 tournements and show with facts all their skills. Plenty of MLG pro players on these forums.

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Like said, it's a double standard.

If you can consistently block, deflect, parry, dodge out of a shove-light, then you can do the same against a PK light-light, because the reaction time it requires for you to defend yourself from a shove-light is actually higher than blocking a 2nd incoming PK light-light. Besides, unlike the Lawb's block-shove-light, which can be dodged out of, but will be horribly punished by a block-shove-GB, the PK doesn't have any 50/50 choices in doing the light-light spam, nor does the lights have unblockable status like the Lawb's.

If you think the shove-lights aren't a problem, then basically the same line of logic should apply to PK's light-light spams.

Have you at least tried to read the whole text ? Or as always you decided what you wanted ? The shove from neutral is useless. The one from block SHOUD not open to mix ups. But even if actually it is, remain mediocre.

SHove lights can be dodged with a dodge attack, and you cannot GB a dodge attack.

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See, I'm not sure if you're just dense, or just purposefully ignoring the point and refusing to acknowledge it.

Again, I'll go slower this time, you - have - a - double - standard.

If you have enough reflexes to dodge a shove-light, you have enough reflexes to doge a PK light-light.
Dodge a shove-light with a class that has dodge-attack moves? Same with PKs -- light-light is easily countered by a dodge-attack.

Being "mediocre" is purely your subjective opinion -- as you seem to have some kind of an agenda to downplay the problem with the Lawb and exaggerate the problem with the PK.

All I wish to make clear is, whether you think it's "mediocre" or not is hardly of relevance -- both are spamworthy requiring similar reaction speeds and limiting the opponent's actions to pressure and gain results easily. Except you acknowledge the problem with one class which you rave on, whereas offer free-passes to another class which you seem to have a hard-on for.

Hence, like said, you have a frickin' double standard.

Seems clear you do not know what you are talking about.

I will repeat myself again and for te last time.


1) Shove is easily dodgeable by everyone even with shugoki ( which is useless because you can super armor shove and get a free GB but however).
2) Some classes can take the shove, dodge and win the "50/50" o matter what, wardens are a good example because ;

- You can shove them, they will side dodge and do a shoulder bash, even if i go for a gb, SB > GB so wardens wins either way.
- Assassins can deflect the hit, IM NOT SAYING IS EASY, just IT CAN BE DONE and even if I go with a GB, side attacks beat GB

That means its a fake 50/50, because it can putting you at risk unlike wardens SSBthat can even be cancelled or cancelled with a GB.

As you can see that not even a 50/50, unlike wardens'one that can do serious damage,the light after shove does useless damage, and that pity damage can become a free GB for zerker, a free half hp gone with orochi r2 deflect, or just moar bleeds for pk.

Raiders, can win either way, because they can dodge and counter a GB at the same time. So here your "omg LB op pliz nerf".

Dodging a light after shove is easy if the LB goes for a light, because you need to dodge as soon as shove hits you, even the direction doesn't even matters because Iframes.

Comparing the LB and te pk is so dumb, i won't spend another minute here trying to explain you why.

[G0dzBlaze]

I saw many assassin being able to DEFLECT the light after block + shove.

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I saw many assassin being able to DEFLECT the light after block + shove.

Its possible because its not giaranteed, its just faster.

Its not guaranteed like warlord's light afer HEADBUTT

[VMPL1]

Its possible because its not giaranteed, its just faster.

Its not guaranteed like warlord's light afer HEADBUTT

Which is stupid and needs to change simply because unlike WL, LB's offense is far weaker whilst his defense is either equal or slightly weaker. No point in being a good counterattacker when the attacker can just simply bypass it by freaking switching his guard faster. That is utterly stupid and nonsensical. They want to improve his duel capability yet keep 1 of his most important ability in duel the same? Like WTF.

I don't care if ppl say he's OP (because he's freaking not). IMO he still needs more buffs:
1. His guard switch needs to be faster, at least to the same speed as Shugoki
2. His light after shove needs to 100% guaranteed, which means you shouldn't be able to simply dodge it. There is no ****ing point in shoving if you simply dodge it afterwards. If so then why the **** can't we dodge after getting headbutted or shouldbashed? Also, making this move guaranteed will also give LB a must-needed offensive move.

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That's you seeing assassins FAILING in dodging in time, and getting an unexpected deflect out of the blue. That's where some assassin players with higher than normal reflexes got their idea to consistently try and use it against the Lawb, that turned up ONE youtube video from ONE player in a practice bout against a Lawb..

Any player trying any assassin class experiences this a few times when fighting a Lawb.

It just goes so much as to show just how biased Lawb apologists are. Narrow, tunnel vision.


That's the problem with the so-called "experts" that stick to only one or two classes. Too much love, zero objectivity from "the other guy's shoes."

You are really the prince of the tards, or just a troll

But you know what ? I don't care it anymore, feel free to whine 24/7 about a class who's never considered worthy in tournaments.

Some classes can turn this 50/50 into self advantages.
Raiders can do it, wardens can do it, assassins can even deflect and zerkers can even gb you and insta ledge you. What is the last time someone turned a headbutt into a self advantage situation ? Never because unless you get a read, that move is unpunishable.

Don't be too surprised if people turtle up when class is slow and cannot combo.

Heavies are almost 1full second of time reaction. Top heavy is 1.1 seconds

[Knight_Raime]

That's you seeing assassins FAILING in dodging in time, and getting an unexpected deflect out of the blue. That's where some assassin players with higher than normal reflexes got their idea to consistently try and use it against the Lawb, that turned up ONE youtube video from ONE player in a practice bout against a Lawb..

Any player trying any assassin class experiences this a few times when fighting a Lawb.

It just goes so much as to show just how biased Lawb apologists are. Narrow, tunnel vision.


That's the problem with the so-called "experts" that stick to only one or two classes. Too much love, zero objectivity from "the other guy's shoes."

That's not how it works. Deflecting requires more precise timing than a normal dodge does. You can say someone got an accidental deflect because they weren't going for it. But failing a dodge is incorrect. Because the window for normal dodging is much bigger. I'm basically saying it's easier to dodge than it is to deflect.

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COnquerors can completely win every shove attempt by just side > shield bash, yes even if you go for a GB, their shield bash is faster than GB. Try to believe.