There is so much this game can learn from SOCOM1&2:US Navy Seals (PS2) 2001 & 2003 | Forums

[Jedimindtrxx]

First off, I am a SOCOM US Navy Seals series fan & Ghost Recon series fan. I'm a realist and with business experience in Revenue Mgt which I will play into that games are made for revenue, not reviews. I don't know the numbers, but if the revenue is high, and the reviews are low. Even a good businessman or ownership would say, HEY, these numbers are good, but if you make the content better, they will grow. If not, then that's a different issue. I know devs have pride because they worked on their products for years, So, I know they're reading.

This game has really hit me with the nostalgia bug which is why I'm so invested and passionate in it. Like many I'm 115%/100% done with the Main Game + NR-DLC. Like most of the community I feel the same way about the NR-DLC, but that's another topic. I have 250+ hours under my belt on Extreme so I feel I have a pretty strong grasp of this game. 1000+ in Arma 3 if that matters. Probably 4x in SOCOM 2 solely but there aren't any metrics to prove it.

SOCOM: US Navy Seals 1&2 were pioneers in the tactical shooter genre in many aspects. Keep in mind that was in 2002/3. In nearly every way, SOCOM was simply better than GR during the PS2 days. Still loved both, but SOCOM was hands down better in every way. I'm not hear to gloat and reminisce but here to point out ways GR:W can improve.There is so much you can take away from those games that can be utilized in GR:W! Since PVP is not out yet and I will cannot compare or suggest anything that regard. I'll focus solely on the PVE and only on aspects that those games had.

ROLE PLAYING
- Biographies
Many people know the premise of the Ghost Teams, but it be nice to have their backstory and specializations. It's apparent that Weaver is a Marksman, the fan wiki claims he's an ex-DEVGRU Sniper. It would be a nice touch to add a little blurb about the team.

TEAMMATES
- Loadout/Armory customization
Many have already asked for this. I don't mind limiting the options, such as WEAVER, only being to have a SR/DMR in his primary slot. Uniform uniformity would be nice as well such as an all jungle team, all urban breach, or all DCU colors.
- Voice Commands
SOCOM had voice commands, 2001 and using voice commands, and they worked.
- Team Commands
Some excellent executions from SOCOM were "Breach, Bang, & Clear". Throw > HE Grenade or Use> M203 Frag or Use > Place Satchel. Is Nomad the only one authorized to use the M203 or able to throw a nade or C4 a Drone Jammer? Yes, I can do it myself but having team commands allows you play more as a leader of a team than the super soldier.

IMMERSION
- Magazine Changes
When I'm using the M4A1, I see the numerical value of 50/225. That is 4.5 magazines which does not make sense. When someone reloaded in SOCOM1&2, your character would actually cycle through magazines. Let's say you have 3 magazines with 30 rounds. 1st mag, you shoot one bullet, next mag 5 bullets, and then last mag 10 bullets. You respectively had 29/30, 25/30, and 20/30 bullets in each magazine and would cycle through them. Though cumbersome to some players, there are PLENTY of ways to acquire ammo in GR:W right now.
- AI teammates should cause detection!
This means if the cartel sees your teammate, this means you are detected. This sounds horrible in the current game because the teammate AI will go off and do their own thing. This is basically a challenge to the developers to upgrade the teammate AI. In SOCOM, if you commanded your teammates BRAVO> RUN TO > CROSSHAIRS, they did it and if they were spotted, it's really your bad as their Commander. You should've chosen BRAVO> STEALTH TO. Bravo element would then Crouch walk and hold if an enemy appeared in their Line of Sight, then went into prone when they reached their destination. How amazing is that... 2001, it's 2017.
- Fast Travel
Alright SOCOM did not have fast travel, BUT they did have insertion and extraction cut scenes. When you fast travel, there should be a Blackhawk or rebel column or humvee column that picks you up, and then goes into the load screen or maybe to even opt to get a ride, so you can actually use the gunner seat. How fun would be to just ride gunner seat with your chauffeur column and just tearing Unidad bases via tactical drive-bys or just enjoy the scenery.


I'll add in some obvious things like I know they are different games. If I was billionaire I'd fund a remaster or revival of the SOCOM series or even my ideas I mentioned. I may have a high standard from devs because I have been spoiled by BLIZZARD.

~~~~Jedi

[Gmoneymozart]

+1

Said the same thing bro.

zipper really nailed those socom games. I don't have any idea what they were thinking with 4. I guess a different team by then. But I also have no idea how Ubisoft programmed these AI teammates of ours.

How hard would it have been to have a guns hot/guns cold move to location.

This is the worse command system I've even encountered. And the sad part is that you know this isn't changing. The game is what it is and that's that.

[RHAIN07]

+1

Enhancement of AI & squad interaction would be a major boon for the game.

I think the state of AI comes down to two things.

1. In the interest of making the game more casual in nature, they opted for basic commands and to have squad mates mimic your actions.

2. Multiplayer in military shooters has been pushed and primarily the main focus for the past decade. I honestly think in a general sense, the art of programming and further enhancement of AI for a solo experience, is lacking as a result.

[TiMeSpLiTIITeR]

You know why Socom was great at that time? The game was made with a collaboration with the real navy seals. Too bad Zipper interactive is gone. The lead designer had left after Socom 2. Did you that MAG was a prototype for Socom 4?

[Jandaime]

Good points. Here's hoping the next title update (4.0?) will start to include more player created ideas. Just want to point out though, the teammate AI can get detected if you are issuing orders and in either hunted or not engaged mode. If you tell them to move to a point, or issue an order for them to regroup and they encounter enemies en route, the enemies will spot them and start to engage. The teammate AI goes undetected mostly when they're in "follow mode" during infiltration. You can test it, as it's pretty consistent and useful when you know how it works.

[TangoOneActual]

You nailed it Jedi. If you're going to make a new game (tactical shooter), would you not sit down with your development team and say "let's look at the great shooters - The orig RB6's, orig GR, SOCOM, and take the best features from each to make this new game." Wouldn't you do that?

What we have though, is a game that apparently the only thing talked about during development was how beautiful the open world was. When the topic of game play was raised, they fell back on the default answer - it's a co-op game they don't need to control their AI and most of them are young so they'll never have played the original, tactical thinking/planning games, and besides they will give us their money regardless.

Oh, I almost forgot. "We own the company that made the original game, it's based in NC, the same state as Ft. Bragg and this company has contacts in the US armed forces that they can go to for advice.......great, let's use our French based company with no connections to the US spec ops community, and who could careless about how they portray American soldiers". That sounds like a winner, let's do that -OUI!

[Jedimindtrxx]

Yes I forgot to mention how the Rainbow 6 AI was actually pretty amazing to behold. You're right there.

I was pointed out to their Biographies. did you know WEAVER was an ex Navy Seal, apart of DEVGRU, graduated Princeton, but has an Army NCO rank... >_> homework, homework, homework.

[DarkLordDashie]

Yes. Yes. Yes. Soooo much yes.

Hell, this game could learn from the original Ghost Recon games too.....

[Flaw3dGenius23]

I dont know, I always found Socom as a poor mans Ghost Recon or Rainbow 6

[DarkLordDashie]

I dont know, I always found Socom as a poor mans Ghost Recon or Rainbow 6

I take offense to that. SOCOM was glorious.